Are you implying that women "at this age" are not equally self-absorbed????? Good Lord!!

Sorry guys - guess that came off kind of harsh. Of course there are plenty of self-absorbed females - especially that age. I'm just throwing out there what I've read about differences between male and females, and self absorption tends to be a natural phase that males go through. While that has its down side, it is also part of what makes young men achieve great things. A high self worth and self focus are an important part of success in business, in creating art, or other productive endeavors.

"a phase most of them outgrow" - ROFLMAO

Thanks for the laugh - you must live in a different reality than I do. One where men don't aim for the best looking woman they can get, no matter how incompatible/unsuitable they are.

Agree with the others, except we are all, male & female, at least somewhat self-centered in general, although it is worse at 19.

Id say both sexes are self centered. But its a different kind of self-centered for each sex. But you cant stereotype each sex. There are guys who think they are really ugly when they arnt and girls who think the same. and vise versa. It all depends on your past experiences and your self image that you yourself based on the reactions of others have created.

the sad thing is, in finding a mate, its a constant game of putting value on one another, and trying to gauge whose better, and if they can do better. Naturally ego comes into play pretty fast. Its all about getting that power, and believing your better than the other person to make youself feel good. People need to rise above this and be open with one another. Spend time with one another and dont try to be cryptic to hide your intentions and your own low-self confidence.

These studies are pointless. Everyone is different.

Oh come on, Renee. It has nothing to do with being self centered. As the article says, it’s a very practical approach. If you look like Brad Pitt you don’t have to try that hard to attract women. If you’re not very attractive, you had better have enough confidence to approach a lot of women. Otherwise, you probably will NEVER find one that is interested.

I hate to put it in mathematical terms, but the less attractive the guy is the more women he’s going to have to approach before he finds one that is interested.

I’m curious to know what your suggestion would be for guys that aren’t very attractive. Should they just sit around in the basement somewhere until a nice woman knocks on the front door and says “Here I am, date me”?

The solution is amazingly simple. If you’re approached by someone you don’t find attractive, say no. If they won’t take no for an answer, then you have a valid complaint. But you shouldn’t take the position that unattractive people should never approach you to begin with. (There is often no way to know for sure if a woman finds you attractive unless you approach her and find out.)

Anybody ever hear of hormones? The more attractive someone is to you, it's bound to up your testosterone, which would affect value judgements.

When you're hungry, food is more appealing than when you're not, but if you see a dish you really like, it's appealing even if you're not particularly hungry.

"Men seem to take any flirtatious signal and run with it."

Well yeah, if we receive a flirtatious signal, we would be crazy not to act on it. The key is, women, if you're not interested, don't flirt! You're not doing the ugly guy any favors by pretending to be nice to him.

Mmm

What do you call flirting? Just talking or smiling is enough to make some men think you're interested in them, even when you're clearly with another man.

Those attractive men don’t have to try as hard. As for the women, their underestimation of guys’ sexual interest might help prevent them from developing a reputation as a slut

This statement pretty much undermines the author's conclusions because it is just wrong. Anyone that has studied the sexual history of humans knows that we were hunter-gatherers that lived in tribes for a huge majority of our evolution and humans were NOT at all monogamous and we did not pair-off to reproduce. The idea of being a "slut" is a very modern religious idea and not based on biology. In fact, during most of our history men and women fornicated a lot like Bonobo's do today - not surprising considering the Bonobo is our closest cousin. So, women have been rewarded for being promiscuous throughout most of evolution (more heterogeneous offspring from diverse genes) and not punished for being "sluts" as the authors suggest.

The data may be correct but not the conclusions.... I think they make the mistake of forgetting the environment in which our sexuality actually evolved - nothing like society is today.

Once again this headline is nothing new. Guys in their 20s want women in their 20s or possibly a cougar if she is rich, spoils him and doesn't mind if he dates other women. Guys in their 30s want women in their 20s. Guys in their 40s want women in their 20s or maybe 30s if they look like they're in their 20s. Guys in their 50s want women in their 20s or 30s or maybe 40s if they look much younger and they're hot. I don't think any guys want women any older than that unless they absolutely don't have a choice. I hear middle aged women complain about this all the time. Every old prune wants a hot, young babe on their arm to show off. One of my more pitiful male friends claims he is saving himself for a hot young woman that he knows is bound to come along any day now. He's been waiting 25 years. He thinks sleeping with women his own age and level of attractiveness is okay for now but he will not marry until his hot 20-something comes along. Meanwhile he get older and less attractive every day. Whatever happened to common sense?

I call flirting flirting. I took a quote out of the article. You can ask the author what they call it.

This goes along with the idea that men at this age are naturally self-centered, kind of thinking everything is about them (a phase most of them outgrow).

Are you kidding me? If it were as simple as that then we would never see a May/December relationship with the men being older. Men at any age think they are appealing as long as they want a woman bad enough AND she is nice to them. It doesn't matter if they are fat, old, and bald. Money usually helps in actually snagging a female if you are all three, but it doesn't stop a man from fancying himself a catch regardless of his appearance and behavior.

Why else do you think there are so many Divorced men in their 50s who remarry to a 25 year old cutie? But this is also telling of woman. If she is willing to commit to someone she wouldn't usually find attractive, then her intentions need to be questioned. Don't change the will or life insurance policy any time soon, Guys!

Renee - Unfortunately, men never outgrow this phase. At a Thanksgiving gathering two years ago, I asked the brother of a friend of mine if he was still seeing the woman that he had brought to a summer barbecue a few months earlier. Let's call him Frank. At that time, Frank was 48 years old, balding, extremely overweight, around 5'7" and earns his living as a pizza deliveryman. I was 60, also overweight but not to the extreme of Frank, 5'6" and have a doctorate in chemistry. I didn't see Frank again until Thanksgiving of this year. During this recent gathering, he pulled me aside and told me that when I asked him that question two years earlier, he assumed that I asked because I was interested in dating him and asked me if we could go to dinner sometime. My jaw hit the ground. First, the only thing that we have in common is that he is the brother of a good friend of mine. Second, I was totally, completely flabbergasted that he would ever interpret that one question as a sign of my interest in him. I was so stunned that I was speechless. I later told his sister that I don't want to hurt Frank's feelings, but I have absolutely no interest in finding anyone.

Men never change. They all think that they are God's gift to women, no matter how homely or uninteresting they might be. So many are of the opinion that we women have only one goal in mind...to find a mate or husband. The concept that a woman can provide for herself and enjoy the company of men without wanting to latch onto one for keeps just simply goes over their heads.

What do you call flirting? Just talking or smiling is enough to make some men think you're interested in them, even when you're clearly with another man.

Too true!! In some cases, all a woman has to do is be breathing and warm to the touch and there will be some guy that thinks she's 'flirting' with him. And when he gets shut down, SHE'S the teasing b1tch.

O'REALLY...Laughing, smiling, making eye contact is clearly flirting no matter who you happen to be with...maybe you need to tone down your actions...by the way most men/women were with someone else when they found someone else...think about it...

I wonder how much of my tax dollars were wasted on this worthless study.

ABC... If the roles were reverse how would you have taken your question? It wouldn't cross your mind even a little that he may have been interested in you by asking about a previous meeting when you were with some guy...or should one assume that when someone asks that type of question they're just NOSEY? WHICH WERE YOU? FLIRTY OR JUST TO NOSEY FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!?

Truth is most pretty/attractive girls sit at home alone during the weekend...Men in general are afraid to ask them out because they are afraid of being rejected...

I am an average looking guy (by no means a Rhett Butler-Clark Cable) married to a beautiful woman...In college I would ask beautiful girls out for a date...Many if not all said OK...Once I asked a girl out who was Miss Ohio University and she told me she spent most weekends without a date because men would not ask her out...So we did go out and had a good time...I ended up dating her roomate who was also pretty for 1 year...Pretty women are often lonely and think there is something wrong with them because men do not ask them out...GO FIGURE...

I love and admire beautiful women - GODS BEST GIFT TO MEN...I am very satisfied witrh my beautiful wife of 35 years...

When I was a bachelor, my highest rate of success in gaining the attention - and later phone number or email - from a woman I was interested in was to ignore her. Not completely, but just act nonchalant and not all hot to trot over her. Talk to her as a pal, not a future mate potential. Then gradually warm up and increase interest if she shows more interest. If she doesn't, no big deal. Maybe her girlfriend who was next to her likes what she sees.

More often than not the above worked for me from women in the offices I worked at to parties to random club hopping. Several of them who I dated - and the one I later married - told me that the one thing they liked about me initially was that I was a challenge for them. Not arrogant, but someone they had an interest in pursuing.

Try it out guys. I had to tell the few of my remaining bachelor buddies to try it and it worked for two of them in finding a wife.

why is there always one jackass that complains about wasting their tax dollars? Do u know what a university funded study is? PRIVATE university? Ron Paul bot.

This goes along with the idea that men at this age are naturally self-centered, kind of thinking everything is about them (a phase most of them outgrow). But if you're the center of the universe, and you see a hot female, she must be hot for you - as in - she exists for your benefit.

and?

Speaking of male delusion... My husband came home yesterday with a cookbook called " get in the kitchen, bit@hes. " seriously. Google it. The site is actually pretty amusing. Anyway he tells me it's part of my Christmas gift this year. So I flip through it, find a dish called "eat me eggplant" and serve it to him in a doggie dish on the floor. How you like them apples, bit@h!

You're husband's funny and you're hilarious. Point Rebi.

Renee, uh..........You really think they outgrow that? Being self-centered? Or are you just old enough to think they outgrow it and not old enough to realize they never outgrow it?

@ABCzyx - you got all the way to 62 and a PhD in chemistry but never learned that making a generalization about an entire gender based on one personal observation of a single one of its members isn't exactly consistent with the scientific method?

Sorry to spoil your preconceived notions about people but the results of these studies do not in any way suggest that these men are "self-centered" in any way. Sure a self-centered type wold definitely be more likely to think that "all" women were interested in him but I’m sure most of the men in the survey were not particularly self-centered individuals. Besides more attractive men probably tend to be more self-centered in general and the men who most often misread a woman’s level of interest, according to these studies anyway, are the less attractive ones. Ohh and bye the way, men are no more or less likely to be self-centered than women. In fact most of the people I’ve observed by far in my life who really though that world revolved around them were women – little Paris Hilton wannabees. But there are billions of people on this planet and I’m intelligent enough to know that no matter what I observe in my own life, and no matter how one sided the data seems, it is in no way representative of the characteristics of the population as a whole. I also know that we see what we want to see based on our own underlying insecurities and we even put ourselves into situation, over and over again, which just reinforce our already skewed viewpoint. By the way you can also you can find just as many old people who suffer from self-centeredness as younger ones so lets not generalize so much people. Also if being self-centered had anything to do with it these guys would think ALL the women liked them, not just the hot ones.

Anyway the fact of the matter is that less attractive or socially awkward men are just not as good at reading women as the rest of us are. They just cant tell the difference between a woman who is just being friendly and outgoing and one who is showing interest in him. Also really "hot" women tend to be more confident and exude more sexuality in general than other women which can tend to scramble a less confident guys brain and make him delude himself into believing anything. On top of this all hot women want every guy to be attracted to them whether they admit it to themselves or not. They are also often very insecure and therefore very competitive with other women. For example if they were to put a much less attractive guy on the show "The Bachelor" the women would still all be fighting over him because on some level they feel like beating out the other women for this guys affections proves that they are hotter then the other hot girls on the show. In fact virtually every super hot girl that I’ve ever dated was very insecure underneath and always had to prove to her self and others how just hot she was.

@vinny-2249640

Do you have any idea how many of these studies are publically funded? Typical neocon dimwit.

Call me old fashioned, but I normally wait to hear a woman speak before I make any judgement on whether she is attractive or not.

I learned many lessons early in life. I knew a girl who was not very attractive to look at, but her personallity made her beautiful, if not HOT. At the same time there were very hot looking girls who ended up being ugly as hell once they opened their mouths.

I'm sure this goes the same way for men, but hey, I never had the urge to chase men to find that out.

On a side note, my wife and I have a good friend, a female (about a 6 on a scale from 1 to 10 on looks, maybe an 8 on personality), who acts just like these guys in the article. She will most likely be single for life, as she is seeking Mr. Perfect, it's always something she finds she does not like about any guy she dates. Mostly silly stuff, things most of us can learn to overlook.

Basically, both sexes are screwed up in their own way, and you can probably see both sexes doing the same thing if you take an honest look.

Here's the difference.

If you're a woman who looks like Angelina Jolie you will never be without a date (regardless of income or social status), and guys will compete to take you out and spend money on you.

If you're a guy who looks like Brad Pitt, but you are poor, you will not get attractive dates sorry. You'll date the fuglies and fatties because those are the only ones your financial situation will be acceptable for. Even most of those won't date you unless you are "financially stable" and "generous".

Translation: for a guy his wallet is more attractive than looks.

Brad Pitt was still attractive before he was famous. But absolutely guaranteed his love life was not even close to what it became after money and recognition.

Women I've talked to about this hate this characterization. But face it. It's true for a majority. It's true for pretty much every culture.

Studies even show it's true with chimps. The male with the most bananas to give to the female gets laid more.

We really don't have gender equality in our society. The cultural and programmed genetic inequalities far outreach the social inequalities.

All that said I have noticed some of these behaviors in friends. I have a couple fairly unattractive male friends, who think they're more than they really are. These two always go for the hottest girl in the room and never get her. They always think she's into them too, when she's just being nice. And the attractive male friends (who generally seem more humble ironically) are more realistic about it.

But, ugly or hot, my friends with more income get more dates. One guy's a complete troll, outside and inside he's repellent. But the guy gets dates constantly because he spends money on him. So tell me, if it's all about attractiveness, or personality, or intelligence, why do these women go out with the hideous asinine guy with a wallet over the hot smart guy who's poor?

The author said she used undergrads in her study. I would bet the study used a convenience sample, which is not all that representative of the subject (men). Really, they should have at least attempted to gather a more diverse group if they wanted real results. I'd be interested in a thorough outline of her methodology as well. The story doesn't offer much detail. She's publishing in Psychological Science, hm? I think I'll have to take a gander.

I wonder if this will also explain why good looking women would rather date tweekers or abusive men than guys that are drug free and not abusive?

Well its a good thing for me, I stopped by this site and caught this article. The weekends almost here and I still haven't bought any whipped cream. I made myself a note to pick a couple of cans up tomorrow. Whew, that was close. I just want to thank whoever wrote this article and for it getting published in here. Imagine that, the weekends upon us and I'm out of whipped cream. Take care and have fun.

Lol. I'm married with kids and have bachelor friends and I can tell you it's not restricted to this age group! This article is spot on, some of these guys are going for girls that are hot, hot, hot and they're not, not, not. Haha.

WHICH WERE YOU? FLIRTY OR JUST TO NOSEY FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!?

Mike - if the roles were reversed, I would never in a million years have assumed that Frank was interested in dating me. I would have considered his question merely a general interest question. If you had read all of my post, you would see that I stated that I asked him the question for the purpose of making small talk. It certainly was not intended to be nosy because I really don't care one way or the other if he is still seeing the woman in question. As for being flirty...I certainly have no interest in dating a 50-year-old pizza deliveryman so why would I flirt with him?

LogicRules - exactly where did I state that I made a generalization of an entire gender based on one single experience? As I stated in my post, I was 60 at the time I posed the question to Frank and am now 62. I've been observing male/female interactions since I became aware that there is a difference between the genders at age 4. I think that 58 years of observing countless male/female interactions and forming a conclusion on those years of observation fits perfectly with the scientific method. I can give you more examples to support my theory than you would ever care to read or that MSNBC would want posted to their website.

@ABCzyx

You made TWO generalizations about all men based on your own experience. First you wrote this: “Renee - Unfortunately, men never outgrow this phase. At a Thanksgiving gathering two years ago, I asked the brother of a friend of mine…”

Then, at the end of the same post you wrote this:

“Men never change. They all think that they are God's gift to women, no matter how homely or uninteresting they might be.”

Really? Every single one of us? You claim to have a PhD in Chemistry and you actually think that one person’s TOTALLY UNCONTROLLED and COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE personal experience qualifies as a valid scientific approach?

Frankly, I find it deeply offensive that you would attack every single male on the planet based on your own subjective, personal experience and then make the laughable claim that it’s scientific.

I also find it interesting that you obviously intended to emphasize Frank’s lack of attractiveness by mentioning ONLY his physical characteristics and how much money he has.

Funny, I always thought the opposite, that, the less attractive the women, the more desperate they are, therefore, the more likely to "get lucky" with very little effort. The more attractive she is, the more other men hit on her, therefore, to be the one that gets lucky, you have to really put out the extra effort.

@ABCzyx - your previous post contained one anecdote and conclusions about all males. More importantly, even a lifetime of personal experiences doesn't come within a mile of a scientifically valid investigation and in no way fits the scientific method.

The girl's major is really important in college for this study, we have all heard about the MRS degree right? I'm going to school to be in medical physics...the girls love that one especially the sorostitutes ha ha ha

Ha ha, now that's what ANY woman SHOULD want: A genuinely nice guy with a delightful sense of humor.

Thats a good blend for me, a guy wanting a women too. Why is it that the really good looking women think they can take advantage of a average to good looking guy? Then the less attractive ladies will try and do everything for the guy, which gets old too. Then the ones with the average looks and brains are usually the coolest, they're the ones that are genuinely nice and delightful.

No doubt. Where are they hiding?

My two main criterias were sense of humor and a love of sports!

Well I'm giving myself another 3 years to find an awesome hot wife, and then turning it over to E harmony b*tches!

Chances of what? spell it out for me.

Anyways my research has found that most women look like sisters when there feet are in the air. ;-)

As for keepers, if she has a job that is a plus mine did and has worked on and off though out our marriage and i enjoy hanging out with her she is truly my best friend.

Actually, it fits quite nicely into some evolutionary theories. If the goal was simply reproducing, then, no, it would not matter. However, with early hominids up until ourselves, the level of resources needed to nurture the completely helpless and dependent infant exceeds the ability of one parents to do on their own and still provide enough for their own survival (we're talking hunter/gatherer culture here, not modern suburban/urban single). It was necessary to obtain the cooperation of other adults to provide food and protection. Evolutionarily, the best way to obtain this cooperation was through mutual best interest -- having the father, who also had a stake in the survival of his genetic offspring, do his part. If the female was "slutty" and did the mating dance with multiple partners, there would be no way to know who the father was and a lesser chance of procuring the assistance of any male in ensuring the infant's survival. This was long before paternity tests. In the interest of one's own genes, why would an early human ancestor aid in the survival of another male's offspring? Of course, this is not the only evolutionary theory out there, but it is one.

I'm pretty sure Australopithecus greatly appreciated the Slut Factor.....

I'm going to see how many times I can slip that quote into my conversations at work today. Priceless!

My pleasure.....

@saddened ... You honestly think early hominids had notions of paternity? I'd be pretty surprised if they saw any direct connection between copulation and gestation. Seriously the notion that evolution has anything to do with the reduced self image of young women is ludicrous. I'd venture the fact that the young woman in the sampling underestimated their own attractiveness was based primarily on the fact that without the influence of his male friends to make him adopt a facade of selectiveness to a 19-year-old male pretty much any girl will do.

Jersey Bob, I'm totally impressed with the fact that you can even SPELL that person's name!

This was long before paternity tests. In the interest of one's own genes, why would an early human ancestor aid in the survival of another male's offspring? Of course, this is not the only evolutionary theory out there, but it is one.

Sorry, but that's not anything like the current accepted (based on evidence) theory of our ancestors at all. Hunter/gatherers had no way to know the paternity of individual children... how could they? They were busy having sexual intercourse with many males just like Bonobo's today (not to mention scores of current and historical human societies that are highly sexual and non-monogamous).

Keep in mind that America is one of the most sexually restricted societies on the planet and our ideas of monogamy and sexuality are quite radical compared to many. In hunter/gatherer groups SHARING is the rule - not exclusivity. See, it doesn't matter if you focus your resources on YOUR offspring in that kind of social group - what is important is that the group survives to increase the chances that ALL offspring survive. If to many in the group die the entire tribe may die. In those groups no one really knows the father - so all males pool resources knowing that the chances are that some of the offspring are theirs genetically. This can still be seen in many cultures today...

Junicon - wasn't suggesting there is anything wrong with unattractive guys approaching women, nor should they stay in the basement. The article was about how guys, especially those who are unattractive, think that the hotter the woman, the better chance he has with her. It's just interesting and seemingly counterintuitive. But from a survival standpoint, it makes perfect sense.

Macin,

I don't know who you are talking about, but everyone has their own ideas. When I was a teenager I had a manager who told all of us guys that he used to hook up with fat chicks and get some while his friends were sitting at home. He would say, "p*ss* is p*ss* but some is just better than others." I guess it is true, but not every 19 year old male will screw any girl.

I always got girls (cute girl nextdoor to hot) because that is who I went after and didn't even attempt fat girls or girls I didn't think were pretty. I used to joke that I could start a modeling agency. I wouldn't hook up with anything that moves. I guess it just boils down to how horny someone is. Thankfully there was always another pretty girl around the corner.

Leprechaun1230,

Australopithecus was a genus of hominids, not a person.

Now I'm not sure about how the hazard of being slutty fits into the equation, but I can tell you this much, I do like them slutty in the bedroom. Now in my dating expierences, it was usually the real quiet ones (usually a pinch above average looks) that ended up being a pinch slutty in the bedroom. I liked that and I actually started looking for real quiet women, to ones being on the shy side a little, when I was going out. Now another thing about the quiet/shy ones, I can't say I ever had more fun in the bedroom, but when I took them to their car or home, they had to tell me that they didn't know if weather they should feel slutty or as some called it, dirty, after the night they spent with me in the bedroom or sometimes even all over the house, but they didn't. That happened to me a few times. So I always wanted to try and comfort them and say that I didn't understand why they would feel slutty or dirty after such a beautiful night we spent together, I would call it a harmony between the two of us that allowed us to spend the night together as one. But I tell you what, it was slutty, but nice. I love them like that. I would love to have a women with a sexual appitite like that on a full time basis but I think it all happened to fast for us and then they felt slutty and didn't think I cared for them as a person. They came over a few more times for fun and games but then they dumped me?

Why not approach the "hottie" as the human being that she is,talk with her and find out whether the two of you have anything in common,then decide whether to pursue it any further?

@kcstrawberryblonde: Whaa?!?!??? You mean women are *gulp* people too? That's just downright ludicrous.

@kcstrawberryblonde: Whaa?!?!??? You mean women are *gulp* people too? That's just downright ludicrous.

Haven't you seen 'Something about Mary'? Men don't think like women until you get rid of all the baby juice that clouds our minds...

Wish I could say I'm joking but there really is something to it, most guys wander around in a halfway ready to go state all day long and interpret pretty much everything all day long on the sex criteria.

Yeah, why not approach the "hottie" simply because she's a "hottie" with no consideration for what kind of human being she is. Then, when she turns out to be shallow and interested in your paycheck, you can gripe and moan about how she's a shallow gold digger! How DARE she be shallow, only you are allowed to use shallow criteria. Just sayin.

True but most men are zombies more or less when it comes to sex, the little head shuts off the core parts of the bigger one.

If you're trying to get a girlfriend, then the best route is obviously to get to know the girl first. But if you're just looking to get laid, then you probably won't have a whole lot of time before the night ends.

Well Liz if my ex wasn't shallow then she was a thief. She came from a band of thieves, the whole family, thieves. Disgusting. Oh well live and learn. The bad part about it all, she wasn't a model good looking, but cute and she was on the quiet shy side, just like I like them, because they were the hot ones in the bedroom. But she thought she was more beautiful then she really was and thus thats why I didn't have a checkbook when she was done.

Being a "super nice guy" is no plus. LOL

Why do you say that? My wife is hot and it worked for me. LOLZ!

Being super nice may not be vogue during your teens when it's win or go home with your tail between you legs, but trust me, nice guys really do rise to the top. It may not be soon, but it eventually happens.

The A$$holes eventually get theirs...

...and?

The unattractive guy has nothing to lose; he's already a loser so why not give it a try?

And by the time nice guy gets a shot she has 3 kids with mr @!$%# and they keep constant contact taking the kids back and forth.

"The unattractive guy has nothing to lose; he's already a loser so why not give it a try?"

LOL Liz.

Yeah, the a$$holes really do eventually get theirs. But they get it a lot. So, if you get crapped on, smacked down, dumped, lied to, or lead on, it's the result of your own choices.

I was raised to be courteous to women. What did I get? Nothing.

I was raised to be courteous to women also. What did I get, two beautiful daughters and a wife of 27 years that loves me! I hit the jack pot!

Liz sounds like a shallow judgemental BITCH...WOW!!...just because a man (or woman) is unattractive automatically makes him (or her) a LOSER??...has it ever occurred to you that people really can't help how they look?..(aside from hygiene and upkeep)..they were BORN that way DUMBASS!!...it's not like anyone has a choice of how they are going to come out looking like..and as a matter of fact I've found that less attractive people are NICER people because they aren't stuck on themselves and have also found they can be much deeper intellectually and are more likely to treat people RIGHT!...ya know...in MY opinion it's women like YOU that make guys use the "C" word.

I really feel sorry for you...it's got to be hell going through life being the way you are.

I guess it's because the unattractive guy had nothing really to lose by approaching the girl. If she says yes- awesome, he got lucky. If she says no, oh well, nothing has changed and he hasn't lost anything. Whereas the attractive guy, or guy who tells himself he's attractive, feels that he has more to lose because he's insecure deep down, and if the girl rejects him, it'll hurt his ego.

Geez, lighten up Mr. HighandMighty! It's legitimate anthropology interpreted for the general reader of this web site.

See I didn't read up on any of this stuff, but from my expierences with women I figured God was looking out for all of them in one way or another. In most cases the good looking ones didn't get much of a brain, but they usually ended up with a sucessful guy, so the brain part was covered for them and then the less attractive ladies were usually smart as all heck and well they didn't need anybody, they did well enough on their own, but I guess, you know, like everyone else they need some lovin too. Then the women right down the middle with looks were also pretty much right down the middle with brains too. The best part, the right down the middle ones, we're usually the most fun. But I have to tell you, I pretty much enjoyed each and everyone that I spent time with. The weekends almost here, don't forget to stock up on the whipped cream. Have fun

And once they both decide they find each other attractive, they run into the next issue: Guys fall in love with a girl for who she is now, and hope she will never change. Girls fall in love with a guy for who he could become, hoping he will change until he becomes that person.

"Guys fall in love with a girl for who she is now, and hope she will never change. Girls fall in love with a guy for who he could become, hoping he will change until he becomes that person."

This is probably the best comment I've read here. It's true even from my own experiences and it is very painful and sad....

I used to work with this sour old photographer. One day we were outside, watching the folks and a pretty young woman wandered by. Some of the guys around us leered and did the general bebop that guys do around attractive women. The photographer leaned over to me and said "men give love to get sex, women give sex to get love."

As to changing a man, which many women attempt to do, stating that he's a diamond in the rough, and just needs the right woman to bring him around. My response to that is that a diamond in the rough is a lump of coal and there isn't enough geologic time or pressure to turn coal into diamonds in her short little lifetime. You either like someone as they are, accept them as they are or look elsewhere.

Absolutely. Just ask my middle school daughter. She'll tell you about the sluts at school.

It's a noun (slut), adjective (slutty) or adverb (slutty). It can describe sex pursuing people, politicians, males, females.

Now that I think about it, it's actually quite flexible.

"Now that I think about it, it's actually quite flexible."

so are the sluts :)

Admit it, guys. We really do love the sluts.

I thought it meant St. Louis urban transit, acronyms are common!

Alcohol is a great solution to my personality problems, Pat. When I drink, I become wittier and better looking.

Kidding!

You left out ten foot tall and bullet-proof...:)

Lol not even upright, just breathing I'd say.

AHHHHH. . .I haven't laughed this hard in AGES! You guys are hilarious and MAN, OH MAN did I need a chuckle. For the record, I always found men more attractive when they had a sense of humor. I dated men who might be classified as "exceptionally good looking" and I've dated men who might be classified as "the rest of them." Hands down, the men who were affable, humorous and conversational won my heart. The "exceptionally good looking" men, for some reason, just didn't hold my attention. You can look good all day and all night long, but when you open your mouth and there's nothing of value coming out of it, you are an empty shell that looks exceptionally well. The same goes for women, guys. THE most beautiful girl friends I've known are STILL sitting at home, or twice/thrice divorced. They find fault in the most picayune of things about people. . .ALL people. They are too hung up on their appearances and never developed the most important aspect of their beings. . .PERSONALITY! Disclosure: I'm certainly not model material, however, I did manage to find one of the best human beings walking this planet to call my husband. He is the most wonderful friend, mate and confidant I could have ever dreamed to meet and marry. For the record, I waited 41 years to find this one man, and MAN is he THE MAN! Thanks for the chuckles, Guys & Dolls!

I'd like to see the "dork" just slathered in male pheromones and then see what happened.

Where do you get the 'male pheromones' to slather on a dorky guy? I want to have access to those pheromones, I want the patent, because if they work I'll be rich. The best 'male pheromones' for the older man is a very large bank account, for younger guys, less-than-attractive younger guys, a very large bank account is also helpful. Looking like Brad Pitt helps attract women if the bank account is meagre.

@ Koza - Yes, I'd agree. Perhaps it was the author of the story "simplifying" the research data, but it does seem as if it wasn't very thorough. I would definitely like to see the actual study. I have many questions.

Honestly, there was once a guy in a bank that I worked with and he smelled irresistible! It was crazy! LOL.

@Haha: "Bagging" a girl doesn't exactly do wonders for a person's confidence, regardless of how she looks. I've "been around the block" so to speak, and it just made me feel worse about who I was. Most people *think* they're having fun, but it really just made me feel like a shallow, egotistical prick, and there was a quite a bit of remorse and shame for "using" girls like that.

@ Matt-3468366

This has happened to me. Although it may be my fault. I approached him! I feel confident about how I look and dress. I do get hit on or sometimes even followed around in stores by guys. (kinda creepy) I knew he was out of place and I was instantly attractedto him. He asked for my number and it was all over lol He was a nerd. I'm not trying to be mean. He told me himself. He embraced it. He is very into engineeringand went to a college in another state for engineering.

I want your input on this. We ended up sleeping together both of us losing something that we can never get back. (if you get my drift) He said we'd keep in contact after he left for school. I didn't hear from him again. When I did...it was like you said it was like he felt "shame" and he thought he was an @!$%# for what he did. He's still too lost in his nerdy emotions to even talk to me.

Since you have experience in this what advice can you give for the girls on the other end who get hurt when they trusted someone so much? Even if they are a nerd who ended up being quite an ass. :/

- Marie

Marie...the best piece of advice that I can give you is to not give it up until you have feelings for someone...in other words control yourself...the heat of the moment is just that...don't be a slut...

What a rude comment! She is not a slut just because she slept with the guy whom she liked. It's not her fault he was a jerk.

Marie - you have to give it time to be real. There's a difference between attraction, infatuation and love. Save it for the person you love. You can't really know if you love someone until you've given the relationship some time. Not night, or a week, or a month...but enough time to experience life with that person - the ugly stuff, not just the ooey gooey romantic stuff.

OBSERVER...Didn't want to really be mean but I wanted to make a point...hitting the sheets with someone you casually know is going to end badly most of the time...being slutty is not just a female thing...if you give your package away you're going to get treated dirty...make sure he/she is worth going to bed with...Renee's right on!

@Marie: Well, I was doing what I was doing because I was a very unhappy person, and thought if I did what the media portrays as "living it up" it might make me feel better. It clearly didn't. It wasn't shame about virginity, as I barely remember my first time (drinking that much alcohol will tend to do those sorts of things.) His shame is probably coming from the fact he slept with you, but wasn't really that "into" you, just wanted to be with somebody, and when he realized it wasn't (the act, not you) all it's "cracked up to be" he felt awful about wasting both his, and your virginity.

I felt bad because I felt like I was cheapening the most intimate act two people can have together. Like I was make sex a trivial thing, almost like a handshake.

@Marie,

I hope this doesn't sound rude. But, to be frank about it, you have to know the difference between routinely sleeping with someone and being in a relationship with someone. Just because you see that person on a regular basis, have sex with them, and maybe even go out on dates and do the things that seem like what a "real" couple does, does NOT mean that you are in a relationship with that person. Very often, sneaky, clever, manipulative men will lead a woman to believe that they are in a relationship, when in reality he's just getting nookie. Hopefully you'll be able to tell when there is true love and committment in a relationship.

@Observer and Renee

I don't think there's anything wrong with casual sex, as long as you know it's just that - CASUAL sex. As long as you understand that, most likely, the person you are sleeping with doesn't have feelings for you, and if you don't want to get hurt, nor should you allow yourself to develop feelings for them. If you know what you're doing, casual sex is fine.

Renee, true love takes YEARS to develop. How can an adult with a healthy sex drive wait years before they have sex? I don't think there's anything wrong with having sex before you love a person that you want to pursue a relationship with, as long as you have some kind of foundation for the relationship. In other words, you guys have to have gone on more than 2 dates and have some kind of a connection.

Noneyabusiness-2291315

"The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life is of the world, not of God".

I'm
with you on that...these entire people think they have the answer. It’s how you
look or maybe hook up for the night, or he's not handsome enough. Get drunk act..
Get a Grip why even try and why is always about sex, that’s a small part of
life. Read your bible, Grow up stop thinking about yourself and learn to serve
other people from the good of your heart. And if you find someone it won’t be
the way you look or what you have..But because she or he likes the person for whom
they are.

Doesn't both me, nick. A little harmless flirting is actually rather fun. It's more of a friendly bonding sort of thing than anything else, so long as it doesn't lead anywhere.

I would think what is more annoying is a person trying to flirt with someone clearly not interested, and persisting. We guys are notoriously known for doing this.

They are interested, in the excitement, and given the right circumstance might even act on it haha. We're all just animals... Lofty, nice ideas go out the window when hormones and excitement take over.

Oh Matt, and I've met some girls who do that too. I just wanna say "listen, I've decided we aren't compatible in any way here can you please stop making advances."

I like it when women flirt with me, married or not. I mean really flirt with me. It tells me that someone finds me mildly attractive. It doesn't happen very often. I just call it a compliment and that is all. I'm no catch and never have been so. I'm pretty sure I'm just ugly.