There is such a thing Roche and it's become an epidemic but it is mostly understood.

Even though the children show the "symptoms", it is in fact the parents that requires treatment.

I recommend bitchslapping them, quite hard, and encouraging them to get off their self-centered, self-absorbed, me me me, high horses.

Then attemping to teach them the simple fact that their children are higher on the priority list then they themselves are.

I invite you to teach any elementary school class for a week and then tell me there's no such thing as ADHD. Yes, some people apply the term to children who are simply ill-behaved because they've never been corrected. However, there are also children who CAN'T control their behaviors, CAN'T resist their impulses. They need help and understanding. It benefits no one to pretend their disorder doesn't exist, just because you haven't experienced it first-hand.

ADHD...is a cop-out of the school systems says "we are morons and can't educate your kids" The Education System invented ADHD along with Phsyco, Physiologist to control our children.

My son was diagnosed with ADD before it became ADHD and they wanted to medicate him to go do school.

We did not buy it. My son was very active and very smart with an IQ if 168. It came to the point with the school system that they did not want him to go to school if he did not take medication.

The solution was very simple. I pay taxes for the school to teach my child, since they are incapable of teaching him I was going to put him in private school to get his educations and they will pay for it or file a lawsuit of the incompetence of the school to teach him.

There reaction was fast. They not only hired a teacher that was an expert at teaching kids like my son and also for at least 20 other kids at that school. I made sure the word got out with the local news so other parents were aware of their options with this so called ADHD. A manufacture decease.

Parents look at your options and don't drug your children because the schools are incompetent of teach them. They would rather have them as zombies at school all day.

Looking through my school years I am only able to remember one boy who MAY have had ADHD, the rest of us just acted like boys. Of course, discipline was very strict. Amazing how that worked so well.

Out of curiosity, I checked my 5 and 6 grade pictures--32 students in each class, and one teacher.

I agree. ADHD is a bunch of crap perpetrated by pseudo scientific "Psychologists" to enhance their patient schedules. Also a boon for drug companies selling products to turn your kids into "Obedient Sheeple"... Teachers need to be allowed to use more 'old fashioned' disciplinary techniques and get off the PC kick.

I have long suspected that ADHD is much as described by Roche and same ol'. The first parent I knew personally who insisted her kid was ADHD was, herself, a bubble or two off plumb. She had an older daughter who was already emancipated. Then there was 'Johnny'. Admittedly, this kid's behaviors were cause for concern. Mom was looking for the silver bullet. She was unwilling to examine her own issues; what caused her, for example to weigh 300+ pounds. She admitted there was no 'fun' in their dysfunctional family but all problems she attributed to the thug to whom she had been married and who had sired 'Johnny'. She brooked no suggestion that the lack of appropriate socialization was the root of the problem.

Another very common issue with kids is food allergies and sensitivities. I am both gluten and lactose intolerant. One of the worst symptoms was the crazies. I can just about imagine what a kid must go through.

Yeah...I used to be one of those people who thought it was a made up problem resulting from over-indulgent parenting, inattentive parenting, too many video games, "sparing the rod" or any of a host of other reasons that make it not "real". Just for background, I am a church going, personal responsiblity advocate, "by your own bootstraps" Reagan Republican, married to the same man for 20+ years with no divorces or out of wedlock children in the history of either my husband or my families, no one has ever been on any public assistance or in jail and all the men have served at least one tour in the miliary. We are the prototypical college educated American middle class family with business and engineering degrees that is becoming the American myth. And I can humbly say that I was WRONG about ADHD until I was 44 years old. ADHD is real and it does exist and I deeply apologize to those who told me about their child having it for my truly stupid and unkind thoughts and to all those who truly experience it.

I have a now 10 year old who is pretty much off the charts IQ wise, well mannered, brought up in a stern but loving household. And guess what...starting around 5 his ability to focus got worse and worse. There was no level of punishment or praise that would help him. He truly wanted to be better. He tried so very hard but he simply couldn't focus no matter what the reward or risk was for more than a few minutes at a time. He was far less physically coordinated than his two brothers who were almost 2 and 4 years younger than him. He required far more instruction, followup and supervison than his brothers too.

In desperation I began to look for answers because my husband and I couldn't understand this behavior. It was not just "he's a boy". It was not just "he'll grow out of it". It was not just that he was lazy or absent minded as we so often accused him of being. When he was almost 9 it reached the point where it was dangerous and his "A+" level knowledge started resulting in D's and F's because he couldn't focus long enough to complete short tests. He was a 9 year old that I couldn't trust not to walk in front of a moving car or watch where he was going in a busy store or not open the door to the car while it was still moving in a parking lot. School was torturous for us all when grades came home every Friday and he had an F on a spelling test we had studied for and he knew the spellings cold. We tried rewards that reached off the chart levels into massive bribes I would never have thought to offer any child and that still didn't work. We piled punishments upon punishments that were getting far too close to abuse with no results other than everyone being unhappy and sick at heart. We tried all sorts of repetative tasks and memory exercises to no avail. His handwriting was almost illegible and no amount of forced practice improved it even a little and he literally couldn't remember to correctly capitalize and punctuate a sentence even if it resulted in him losing a trip to his favorite museum. It wasn't that he didn't know how to do it. He just "forgot" over and over and over. Even with us hoving over him at the dining room table timing him on practice tests and a whole list of awful punishments awaiting him if he failed, he literally COULD NOT do what was necessary for more than a couple minutes before he went off task. We enrolled him in Karate to see if that disciplined approach from someone else would work and he spent more time doing pushups than karate because he literally couldn't stand or sit still or follow directions. Soon his younger brothers had passed him in belts and he was becoming the subject of riticule among the other students because he couldn't remember the simple Katas even ten minutes after he had just done them right.

Any search of the web told us the same thing...which we didn't want to believe...ADHD. Friends even tried to gently tell us that while I politely listened but all the while I was thinking...yeah and that's soooo bogus. Finally, I realized that this was NOT something I could "parent" him out of or that he could do on his own. We had reached the extreme limits of rewards and punishments we would accept and had no where else to go when I finally realized that there is no way any normal child would go though this if he could help it and we were turning our wonderful, honest child into a depressed basketcase who disliked school, didn't have friends and was hiding things and lying to us to avoid punishments. One ironic positive of his ADHD was that it also made him terrible at lying and hiding things too so we didn't miss anything.

I opened my closed mind and did a ton of research from legitimate sources of information from respected doctors about it and finally swallowed my pride and decided to see his pediatrician. Of course, he was diagnosed as ADHD. All of his teachers told me afterward that they knew he had it but they weren't allowed to say so to parents even though now I know that a couple teachers who were testing him for gifted programs he should have made easily (but didn't) were trying to clue me in and I was just too blind to see it.

Literally my son's life changed quickly for the better inside a week with a prescription of focalin XR. Now he can focus, he can enjoy what is happening now instead of always being distracted, he can perform in school, do homework, his handwriting doesn't even look like the same kid is doing it and he can control his emotions. We only gave him the medication on school days at first and not on weekends or holidays. Soon he was asking us to give him the medication all the time because it made him feel better and more in control of himself and he was better able to enjoy things. Do I like giving him a pill? No I do not. Is it possible that there will be long-term side effects? Possibly and it does worry me. But I can only think about how much better his childhood now is rather than the one of screaming, angry, threatening, desperate parents and teachers, punishments, disappointments, bullying and low esteem that was ahead of him without it. Now he enjoys school, is a leader to his younger brothers, is going for his black belt in karate next spring and can be trusted to do what he is supposed to do. Now he can be more independent because he can pay attention to what is around him and not be so distracted that he falls down stairs. No my son is not a "zombie". He is not allowed to "get away" with things because of ADHD, but it didn't take us very long to understand what actions are the result of ADHD and what are things he can control but chooses not to like any other kid. He is a exactly what everyone wishes for...a happy, fun loving kid who can enjoy things now. People love to be around him and he has tons of interests and friends. He is even taking flying lessons now and I feel confident sitting in the plane when he is flying with his instructor because I know he won't see a bird out the window and suddenly veer us to the ground. Before this I couldn't even get him to focus on pedalling a bike correctly.

My Mother so wishes she had known what we know now because the youngest of my 3 older brothers obviously had ADHD also but because no one knew what to do "way back when", he suffered all through his school years and even as a adult. He got into so much trouble that was unnecessary, even wrecking his car into a parked train and a parked police car. Who does that? He did because he was distracted and didn't see them. We used to joke that God worked overtime looking out for him because we couldn't believe he managed to live though all the ridiculous, inexplicable things he did. He was also the only one of us who never finished college even though he was obviously smart enough. He is now 50 years old and decided after what we went though with my son to get tested as an adult.

continued...He was diagnosed with Adult ADHD and has been on medication for almost 6 months now and admits that he has never been happier or felt better and that his only regret is that his life could have been so much better had he known this long ago and had some way to help himself. He is going back to college now at night and enjoying it like he never enjoyed school when he was younger. We are all saddened and guilty that we placed such blame and riticule on him for things he could not control even though we did and do love him so much and he is such a light in our family circle. Maybe someday they will find some other therapy or treatment that replaces the medication but until then, I am certainly going to respect what is available and use it for the best interests of my son.

I am glad those who believe it is a bogus problem have not had to experience it, but please open your mind a little and have some compassion for those who do. Whether you are ready to accept it or not, you are wrong and ADHD is real. It may be overdiagnosed in some cases but it is VERY REAL. And I hope you never have to learn that the hard way like we did or have your child suffer needlessly for your ignorance and bullheadedness like our sensitive, sweet, smart son did because we thought the same way you did.

To Rita-356262: You have concisely explained the very real issues of children with ADHD. I am a Certified Pediatric Nurse currently working in a developmental medicine clinic. I see children like your son every day. I, too, questioned the validity of ADHD until my daughter was diagnosed when she was in high school. Our family was very much like you describe yours. Once she was diagnosed and started on medication, the turn-around was nothing short of miraculous for us. Some kids have brains that are wired very differently and, as you explained, they cannot control their behaviors no matter how much they want to. That would be like expecting someone to grow a new limb if one is amputated. No matter how hard they try, it is just not going to happen. Thanks for sharing your story.

Growing up, I can't recall a single kid who would today be 'diagnosed' with this 'affliction.'

We had respect and discipline and teachers had authority.

Today? Kids have neither, schools have none of the above, and your little angels are branded and labeled and now drugged because there's NO WAY that you, parents, or your little angel, are responsible or accountable for this issue.

Just spend some money on some pills!

Man, you people.

"To Rita-356262: You have concisely explained the very real issues of children with ADHD..."

Concisely? Hardly. Look up the definition of concise. It does not require anecdotal experiences. In fact just the opposite.

spike: Actually, Rita's description wasn't concise, but not for the reason you state. The definition of concise says nothing about anecdotal experiences. Concise is giving a lot of information using very few words. Rita's description, while a good anecdotal description of ADHD, it certainly wasn't concise.

Adding anecdotal experiences goes against the very definition of concise. Superfluous verbiage. I disagree.

This comment was "concise".

Who cares if it was concise? It made me more willing to consider ADHD as a legitimate problem, and I was firmly in the "boys will be boys" camp before reading it.

Since most posts here consist of juvenile insults and me-too's, I'd say her post is well above-average in contribution value.

spike: I suggest you look up the word.

seriouslynow: I agree. ADHD is a legitimate problem for the children that have it (Rita's experience, my own with my son, other parents, etc.). There are plenty of kids in the kids will be kids area - but these kids aren't what we are talking about with ADHD children. I also agree that her post is well above-average in contribution.

I remember a lot of children with ADHD when I was in school, back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth. They spent most of their time in the principal's office getting paddled, sitting in the corner or in the hall, and dropping out of school after elementary school. The girls got pregnant at a young age, and the boys got jobs stocking grocery stores, or they both wound up in reform schools. No one perceived them as having a learning impediment--people perceived them as being "bad eggs."

I'm not sure we even have "reform schools" any more--but they used to be packed with such children. If you believe that their problem is just that they are "bad eggs," then that is how you will see them. However, a child who is a "bad egg" isn't going to suddenly start behaving if you give that child Ritalin. A child with ADHD, however, will. And, there are many children who--if they are put on certain medications--start miraculously to act "normal."

I do think that there are more such children now--because, and this is purely opinion, we have more and more electronic stimulation that small children are exposed to and more and more artificial products whose effects we do not understand and yet we expose small children to them. Small children's brains can be adversely affected by such things--and ADHD may be the result.

You know--back in the day, there was no such thing as "schizophrenia"--such people were considered "possessed" and were burned because they heard the voices of demons. Back in the day, there was no such thing as "bipolar disorder," just "lunatics" who were "insane"--and such people were locked in wards or lobotomized. Back in the day, there was no such thing as "Down Syndrome," just retarded people who needed to be institutionalized away from the normal people. Back in the day, there was no such thing as "clinical depression," just people who were good for nothing and were left to rot in the street . . . oh, wait, that still happens. My bad.

Many things are open to interpretation--and if you don't suffer from a particular condition, it is easy to dismiss everyone else who does. As science improves, we are better at describing certain phenomena, and we figure out how to treat them. If there was no such thing as ADHD, then it wouldn't be treatable--and, yet, it is treatable in many cases. Some children are being misdiagnosed--but that is commonplace when people first realize that there is a condition but don't have a good way to test for it yet. When they have a better way to test for it--and a better idea of what is triggering it--then maybe we will get somewhere.

In the meantime, remember that perception isn't truth. Your perception informs your opinions, Roche, but your perception isn't reality. Go and re-read the story of the blind men and the elephant--you appear to be the blind man who reaches around but never even touches the elephant, and asserts that it isn't there. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there. Maybe you are just blind.

There is one VERY real treatment for so-called adhd, it's called SPANKING. A little REAL discipline teaches all children to STFU and do as they're told. Parents nowadays just put them "on time-out" AND that doesn't mean ANYTHING to a child.

I have such mixed feelings about the treatment of adhd. Doctor Laura on the radio said so many children are missed diagnosed with adhd. Says boys are normally hyper and unruly. My nephew was diagnosed with adhd at 12 and was given meds to help him out. Now he is 24 and still taking his meds. he is a junkie.

My now 15 yr old daughter has been struggling with school since 2nd /3rd grade. I met with her 3rd grade Teacher whom told me that she's a great child to have in class an everyone likes her, but when it come to school work it took her 10 times longer to complete tasks than the other children. In his 30+ years of teaching he's never had a more pokey, distracted, daydreamer...whom always was not focused on the task at hand.

In 4th grade her Teacher said she was a great kid, but thought that if she only tried harder an got a real good grade, that it would boost her self esteem and she'd improve. My Daughter would come home after School around 3:30 an we would turn off everything in the house that would be distracting. 4 out of 5 days, we were still completing homework at bed time. She would cry an say she was stupid, dumb, an worthless, it broke my heart. Obviously, while we were doing homework she was not having any kind of childhood life with friends because we were so focused on completing the work 1st, before doing anything else.

The 5th grade Teacher said have her tested, which I did. ADHD Inattentive was the diagnosis. I really didn't want to think that was the issue. I struggled with what to do. I didn't want her on med's that could change her brain forever or make her a mass murderer, because every time I turned around the news was saying all these bad things about med's associated with ADHD treatment. It's been a slow but steady progress since we started med's, it did take a few tries to find the right one that works. We've been off/on med's since. We take it only for School days. She's wanted to go off med's an when we do her world just falls to the floor.

Well here we are now in 9th grade with a "Major Post Transitional Anxiety/Depression Disorder" on top of ADHD "Inattentive" Disorder & weekly Therapy to help improve her self esteem that had been pushed to the ground because of this. I have to take most of the responsibility for this because I did this to her by not listening or believing in what she was telling me. I kept believing the 4th grade teacher who said she just needs to have more self esteem.....who can have any self esteem when your consistently failing at every thing you do, an no one believes your trying or believes in you! That's how my Daughter now feels and I don't wish this on any one.

For all those people who think that Dr's/Teachers/Parent's make this up because we are all failing at our jobs, need to get a clue! Do you have your Medical degree? Have you experienced any of this first hand? Would you stand by an let others tell you whats best for your children? I think not!!! I would hope most Parents would lay down their live for their children, I know I will. That doesn't go with out saying, I really don't like having to give her Medication, but the results speak for themselves.

Until you live a day in my Daughter's life you have no right to judge here or me. I don't wish this on any one, but one can only hope that people will be open to the possibilities, without having to have someone they love go though this. Unfortunately some closed minded people will never get it!

I believe the saying goes something like this, "Opinions are like A**H***, everyone's got one".

I wonder how many of you nae sayers have actually experienced parenting a child with add or adhd or both. Its not an easy task and not soloved by an ' a** whoopin'. Dont you think those parents have tried this? No body wants to drug thier kids or look for an easy solution, in fact i think i speak for the majority when i say that every other avenue has been exhausted ( including the parent ) . Next time you get sick why dont you just have someone spank it out of you!! i expect to be criticized etc for this answer, all you intelectual brainiacs who have nothing better to do than measure each others 'members' to feel superior or whatever but just be grateful that your kids if you have any are 'healthy' and have not needed treatment. I think all children have the right to an equal chance at an education, and if a pill allows this then it is a good thing. Sso have fun dissecting my grammmar spelling or misuse of words, even better go do something great with those big fabulous brains because by the sounds of it you could solve the troubles of the world.

ADHD is real. I was clinically diagnosed when I was 9 years old. Unfortunately at the time the only treatment available was medicinal. That only covers part of the problem. A second part is behavioral therapy that teaches a child or adult how to cope and manage their condition.

I do think that many children are improperly diagnosed by the family physician instead of a professional psychologist.

I am really angered by the sheer ignorance that many, many people have. I used to think that ADHD was an excuse that lazy parents used to make up for their lack of discipline. I learned that ADHD is genetic. I have seen many children who are not being treated for it and they are automatically labeled as problem kids. Society wants to blame the parents. ADHD is not a parents excuse. Most children with ADHD are the most well mannered and polite children you will ever meet, they are just misunderstood by the inability to focus. Please explain how a 5 year old tells his teacher that he can't focus no matter how hard he tries? You honestly can't sit there and tell me that that is a discipline problem. Ignoring ADHD and labeling kids as problem children is the REAL problem in today's society not the diagnoses of the disease. We talk about getting educated, how about those of you who know squat about ADHD get educated instead before you decide that you have the right to pass judgment on parents whose kids have been diagnosed with this disease!

Cut out most of the sugar from their diet. Results will amaze you.

Cut out all the refined sugar and processed food from their diet and make sure they exercise every day and the results will more than amaze you.

Don't kid yourself; ADHD meds are dangerous, especially for developing brains.

I agree with those who believe in ADHD, and yes, KSMOMMY98, you are right it is genetic. The problem lies not in the parenting, but within the minds of the children and people that are diagnosed, or even undiagnosed but still have the mental health disease. What most people don't realize is that the medications are not changing the brain in a bad way, but may be actually aiding the brain in doing the job it was designed (by God) for. People with ADHD already have problems with their brains and the neural pathways within. Most of the pathways have not been able to develop properly, and the chemicals within the medications help to aid the process of allowing the pathways to connect. Think of medication as a sort of bridge that is being built to allow for the brain's neural pathways to access each other. This is true with all mental health diseases; something is missing within the brain, just what is missing helps determine the diagnoses. Mental health issues run in families; mine is one of them. My daughter was diagnosed with ADHD, among others, and medication was the only thing that was able to help her get through school with any success. Without it, my daughter was violent, disruptive, careless, disobedient, and got nothing done. She was like this in the 2nd and 3rd grade. When we finally found a medication that was right for her, my husband was asked if she was the same child that had attended school previously. She was nice, quiet (when appropriate), careful, obedient, and got her work done. We have had to try her on at least six different medications before the appropriate one was found. There is certainly no "one size fits all" medication that works for everyone since everyone's body is different. But, the necessity of finding one that does work is so much more beneficial to the child than not having any at all. As I have said before, the medication is a bridge; it helps, not hurts (as long as the medication is the proper one). If one doesn't work, it doesn't mean the disease doesn't exist, it just means that you have to keep looking. One last thing, since my daughter's diagnosis and treatment, I have also been diagnosed with the same and more; my mother has, too. Because I have now gotten a proper diagnoses of my mental health issues, I can now lead a normal life again. But who is to say what is normal? Everyone is just average. For more information on mental health issues, contact an organization called NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) at www.nami.org and learn about some very interesting facts. They have been an extreme help for my family.

Hmm, my ADHD son has always had organic foods and a very carefully planned diet (in part because he also has food allergies, so it's virtually impossible to feed him manufactured foods). Yet, the diet didn't help his symptoms. It's taken a combination of therapy for him, me learning ways to cut out extra stimuli and deal with him, and medication to get his symptoms under control. We added medication as a last resort.

That said, I do worry that many parents will automatically go the medication route when treating their child's ADHD. I do think it should be used as a last resort.

I personally can't attest to the viability of all natural diets. However when I was a kid I was diagnosed with ADHD. They put me on many, many medications all of which made things worse. They took normal every day child behavior and associated it with ADHD. Eventually it was determined that I didn't have ADHD. Medications are not the answer, at least not for most people. I'm sure some meds help in a truly legitimate case. But I think doctors are so content to sling the ADHD diagnosis around and are more than happy to diagnose someone who doesn't have it with it. Ultimately I think it lies with the parents to confirm or disprove the doctors diagnosis. Vigilant parents should have no issue with this.

jwright: For certain cases of true ADHD, medication will work (other cases, don't need medication, it depends on the child). For children that don't have ADHD, medication will often make the situation worse. Also, the diagnosis of ADHD has changed - there are more questions asked, the symptoms have to be in more than one setting (school, home, church, public, etc., etc.). While I agree that misdiagnosis can happen, there are many people that like to assume that every case is a misdiagnosis, which simply isn't true either.

I agree 4 is a little young but there are some very extreme cases from what I found out on some ADHD parenting boards. ADHD has nothing to do with processed foods and mostly has to do with genetics. I have shopped pretty much strict Whole Foods for my kids since they were born. They were all breastfed past a year. I have one child out of 3 that has ADHD - it was dx when she was in 2nd grade and we did not start meds until 4th grade. Boy - has Straterra been wonderful for her. She is doing so much better in school. She is more focused and organized. She is still basically the same kid just with fewer fights, higher confidence, better grades, more friends (because she is not anoying them now)......

I personally have ADHD and I can count a large amount of people in my family that does.

The medications only work if you actually have ADHD. Otherwise it makes things worse. It has the opposite effect on those that don't have ADHD.

After a healthy foods, most of the children need disipline, love, exercise and to turn off the TV/computer/cell phones. Worked wonders when I was growing up, not a child in any of my classes that had this problem. My mother was a 2nd grade teacher for many years and never had this problem in any of her classes. Seems to be a bigger problem since there was a drug found to treat something that was not a big problem in the past.

doggiemom: hmmm, My ADHD son has all the things you mention (plus some - such as a set schedule, some unstructured play time, etc., etc.), yet he still has ADHD. Sure, some parents don't provide their children with these things - some of those children have ADHD and some do not.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think medication should be the first line of treatment. It should be a last resort. Also, I am uncomfortable with extending the minimum diagnostic age to 4. Some 4 year olds are barely beyond acting like toddlers!! That does bother me.

More than half the "ADHD" cases I've seen were actually parents failing to teach their children self-control and discipline when they were younger. The few cases I've seen that were legit... 2 out of 3 were because the parent abused substances while pregnant or while the child was in a place where they could get 2nd-hand effects from the parent's using.

All 4 year olds lack serious attention spans. Sitting still and paying attention for long periods are learned behaviors. If someone isn't teaching them, medication isn't going to teach the kids instead.

While ADHD is a serious condition that needs to be monitored it has also become a catch all for any child who doesn't fit into a set pattern. What happened to the busy child who didn't sit still because they were too interested in something. It's easier for the school to have them drugged up than to help them understand what has their attention. Probably half of our scientific advances wouldn't have happened under today's ADHD labels. The schools need to realize that not all children are the same and will fit into a set mold.

After an incredibly disfunctional life where the condition was never diagnosed, my doctor prescribed Ritilin for me at the age of 55. It was a miracle in my life. Since that time I have been able to become a certified welder and finally able to live a productive life. Anyone who says that the condition does not exist really needs to go get a heart and then get a life.....

This whole article reeks of "big pharma wants to increase revenue, so let's just start diagnosing even more than before!"

Doggiemom, My child is a competative swimmer - she swims 5 nights a week / 2 hour practices and she watches 0 TV. She is 11 and no TV - no Video games..... She gets plenty of love and discipline. I am extremely strict with her because you have to be with a child that has ADHD.

I also have it. It was much worse as a child so I know what she is going through. I have tons of empathy for the kid but I also know that I have to be tough and tight with the limits because I really can not risk having her mess up her life.

Isn't that funny?

"Now Johnny, don't do drugs. Drugs are bad. Now, come here and take your pills..."

It's kind of like using a slap across the face to teach a child "we don't hit."

Meanwhile, here we are wondering why the youth of America is so screwed up.

Well parents, it's your fault. All of it. Every last stupid thing your kids do is on your hands.

Well, the ADHD medications, while similar are NOT the same as "speed" or "meth". Not to say that ADHD meds aren't serious medications - they are very serious medications and should NOT just be taken lightly.

Summer,

For the most part the differences are similar to what you'll find different when comparing generic and original patent holder versions of the same drug. You really need to learn a bit more about pharmacology.

They act the same way when presented to the human body... with the same reactions, more or less, depending on quality and quantity. Ask your doctor or pharmacist... hopefully you'll get an honest answer

I had a friend who OD'd on 'legit' medications his doctor prescribed to him for 'anxiety'. He was told to 'take as many as needed', till he 'stopped feeling anxious'. Got to the point where if he had a bad day at work he'd run home to take a whole mess of pills. Any little excuse to justify taking more pills. They were finally the death of him. Gotta love 'legit' medication.

Grammar Police: I have a few pharmacology book for part of my studies. It includes both "speed"/"meth" and the ADHD drugs. I can read AND actually understand the pharmacology myself. Beyond this, I have discussed this very issue with several PharmD's and PhD's in pharmacology - all have said the same thing, they are similar, but NOT exactly the same and their actions are slightly (but importantly) different in the body. They are not the same - nor do they have the exact same action within the human body. They are very similar - but slightly different. As I said, they are serious medications - and should be treated as serious medications. I'm not going to take the time to pull out my book and quote it to you - mainly because I'm studying for a hematology/oncology exam I have in the morning.

My son takes Concerta for ADHD (it was added as a last resort after ongoing non-pharmacologic treatments, and is still used as an adjunct to non-pharmacologic treatments). I certainly wouldn't want the meds to be the treatment of choice - they should be reserved for ADHD that isn't responsive to non-pharmacologic treatment. I also worry about them lowering the minimum age for diagnosis to 4 years old. I think this could, potentially, increase the pharmacologic treatments for ADHD - and I'm no comfortable with that. These drugs, as I said, are serious drugs - I wouldn't be comfortable putting a child who is 4, 5 or even 6 on these drugs.

He was told to 'take as many as needed', till he 'stopped feeling anxious

I highly doubt he was actually told this, and if he was, that would be malpractice. I have OCD (an anxiety disorder) - I have never been told to take as many as I need until I stop feeling anxious. I know of no one that has ever been told this by any physician.

wow, what an insane observation

Any proof to back up these claims? The majority of drs do not own significant stock in pharm companies. And there is no worldwide conspiracy to drug patients unnecessarily to make money. And no one is shooting mind control beams so you can take off the aluminum hat

ALL kids get bored! ALL kids squirm in their seats and fidget! ALL kids get hyperactive!

True - but this doesn't describe an ADHD child.

My son has severe ADHD. We tried behavior modification, I sought out different ways to parent him, etc., etc. His diet is very healthy (it's actually restricted due to food allergies also). None of this worked, so we added medication. With his medication he can actually function.

Pre-medication: my son would wake up at 5 am and instantly was hyper and not just a little hyper - I'm talking climb the walls hyper. He was impulsive - to the point he's had several serious injuries. Focus was an issue. The lack of focus, I could deal with - so what if it took him longer to complete something, he still got it done (eventually). Disorganization ruled for him. He complained of feeling scattered and unable to do anything. His IQ tests were off the chart high, so we tried giving him more difficult school work - he enjoyed the work better, but couldn't complete it due to his inability to focus. He literally was in high gear all day, everyday. He couldn't shut off to go to sleep - he was averaging 4 hours of sleep a night. Even with a very set schedule (bath time at 8 pm, in bed by 8:30). He'd simply toss and turn in bed all night until he finally fell asleep. The lack of sleep also increased his behavior issues. He has always been held accountable for his own behavior though - if he misbehaves, then there are consequences.

We tried behavior modification therapy first. This did improve many things. But, he was still having a lot of problems. After a while, we did introduce medication.

His day now: Get up at 7 am, in a good mood. He still behaves like a kid - yeah, there are times he is still hyper, gets bored, he still squirms in his seat and fidgets. He makes it through the day in his class without having moments of uncontrolled impulsiveness, excessive hyperactivity (though he's still hyper at times), he is able to focus in order to get his work done both at school and at home. I can take him in public without him having impulse control problems or excessive hyperactivity. The few times he does act up, he still receive consequences. He's falling asleep between 8:30 and 9:00 pm every day. He's not a zombie, but he's able to function.

hey know that NONE of them are approved for children under

Not true. Concerta (what my son takes) is approved for children six and older. Vyvanse is approved to treat ADHD in kids 6 - 12 years old. Adderall, Daytrana, etc. are also approed to treat ADHD in children. Straterra is the only non-stimulant ADHD medication approved to treat ADHD - and it's also approved for children under 18. None of them, to my knowledge are approved for anyone under 6 years old though, so if they were to start using them prior to the age of 6, they would be using them "off-label".

That said, there are some medications used to treat ADHD that are used off-label. For example, Tenex is actually an anti-hypertensive that is sometimes used to help even out ADHD treatment (it's used with other medications) - because it acts on dopamine receptors. Using Tenex helps ensure that symptoms are better controlled (in some kids) as their regular medication is beginning to take effect and as it's wearing off each day.

That said - I absolutely agree that a teacher is NOT allowed to diagnose a child. They can bring their concerns up with the parent, but they cannot diagnose the child. I also have concerns that by expanding the age guidelines, more people will opt for medication as a first choice. It should be a last resort - not the first line treatment.

I'll bet that you NEVER asked your child how he feels all drugged up on the medication....

isis: You'd lose that bet. I've specifically asked him what he thinks about taking the medication and how it makes him feel, etc. His reply: I'd rather take my medication than not take my medication. He's told me that without his medication he feels scattered, like he's lost and not in control of his own mind and body.

Not only am I a teacher, but I grew up with a brother who had SEVERE ADHD... and my parents didn't everything under the sun to help him. The meds were the only thing that helped. Now that he is older, he feels he doesn't "need" them, but if you see him on and off them he is 2 different people. Society has conditioned him to think he doesn't need the meds when in reality he can't hold down a job or live a normal life with out them.

I see students every day who struggle who can't focus or pay attention, who scatter all over. most of which are not on any meds. But some who are function perfectly normal. There are many differences in kids who just squirm and get bored and those who are scattered bounce off the walls.

I have a 7 year old son, he gets bored what 7 year old doesn't but its not like what my brother had when I was growing up.

For those of you who tink this is a made up diesease... Go to a school spend a day with a teacher who had to deal with all kids on every level every day!

I have a 7 year old son, he gets bored what 7 year old doesn't but its not like what my brother had when I was growing up.

Exactly, Eternitywkuv143, what an ADHD child displays is different than what a non-ADHD child displays when they are bored, hyper or have lost focus. It's on an entirely different level.

Were kids in the 50's and 60's so much more well behaved than todays kids? Why do so many kids in in our schools today have ADHD? What is so different about our society today than 50 years ago that so many kids now have ADHD? Was it the mental health community 'discovering' this condition? Too muchTV? Chemicals in the food? WHAT?

Tony, kids in the 50's and 60's did have it. They were the bad seeds, incorrigble boys, kids in reform school or drop outs. ADHD is not something new, it has been documented since the 1800's and in the diagnostic manual since the early 1900's. I suspect it may be on the rise because it is thought to be genetic. One parent who carries the gene can have several children who may or may not have it.

I wondered the same thing as Tony. I was in grade school in the 50s, public school, working-class town. The only kids not in school were the poor children with polio. Everybody else attended, from the most academic to the slow, from the most obedient to the most brazen. We all behaved. Every last one of us. The teachers controlled us, and we obeyed. If we disobeyed, even by reason of misunderstanding, we were scared. And our teachers were wonderful---kind, prepared, dedicated, helpful. There were no psychological sicknesses. There were some children who were retarded, but that was different. And they were transferred to special schools, where they did not have to compete against children in the normal range of intelligence.

I never saw or heard of add, adhd, or even dyslexia until decades later. Every single one of us learned to read. Every one. Sometimes the "bluebirds" learned in September and the "robins" did not learn until June, but every single one of us learned eventually.

Like Tony D., I would also be interested in knowing what happened. Food additives? Air pollution? Fluoride in the municipal water? What>

Simple answer: No. My children (one with severe ADHD and one without ADHD) are not allowed to sit for hours in front of the tv - regardless of whether it's fast paced brilliantly colored cartoons or otherwise. My oldest will occasionally watch a football game on tv - otherwise, he doesn't watch tv at all. My youngest (the one with ADHD) will occasionally watch part of a program on Discovery or Animal Planet. They more times than not go days without watching any television. So, no not every ADHD child is allowed to watch TV none stop. While I am absolutely sure there are some ADHD kids that are allowed to watch tv non-stop, most truly ADHD kids who are untreated don't have the attention span to sit through even a 30 minute program. Also, the parents I know of ADHD children, actually allow LESS tv viewing than parents of non-ADHD kids (of course, like I said, I'm sure that's not a universal truth).

My kids were never allowed to watch tv until they were two - then it was less than an hour a day. Now they don't have time to watch TV. Their ADHD is genetic. I have it - my dad has it (never diagnosed but spent enough time in the county jail to sugest otherwise).

There's no reason we can't mandate all 18 year olds to be tested. That's borderline fascist...wait, there's nothing borderline about it actually, that is PURE FASCIST. Forcing people to be screened and drugged? What the hell is wrong with you? If you think Americans are gonna stand for that BS, you've got another thing coming.

Why don't you go get yourself diagnosed and drugged.

Doctors should try to obtain information from teachers, counselors......Yep, because that way, the doctors will have all the AMMUNITION THEY WANT AND NEED to drug your kids!

isis: You realize that the diagnosis of ADHD requires the behaviors of ADHD in more than one setting - in other words, in order to properly Diagnose ADHD, reports from teachers, counselors, coaches, etc. are required.

Barbara C.: LOL, good catch on the typo. That made me laugh :)

Thank you for your reply. As a mom of a child with ADHD, it about tore my heart out to read some of these comments; it's obvious that some people have never considered the tears, heart ache, and self blame I experienced when I couldn't help my child before we knew what the problem was. Still for a long time we didn't give medicine, and when we did... as his teacher said, nothing can stop him now. He's going to soar. We are vegetarians, we don't give him a lot of treats, he could never sit still to watch TV. He has a disease. And I love him more than I love myself, I can tell you I would never put anything in his precious body without careful thought, prayer, and research. Like you, I'm glad I'M his mom, instead of these people who would probably blame him for his behavior when it was completely outside his control.

....everything you think do and say...is in the pill you took today.....

...propehtic lyrics......

People like YOU who medicate their child WITHOUT trying anything else make me sick.

I hope those who allow their children to be prescribed these medications take the time to understand the stimulant drugs speed up heart rates and can be fatal if the child has an undiagnosed heart condition and the NON stimulant druugs lower blood pressure and SLOW the heart, which can deprive the brain of needed oxygen.

It is appalling that more than ONE MILLION children may be on these medications, INAPPRORIATELY DIAGNOSED simply because they are younger, yes YOUNGER than the other children in their grade:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100817103342.htm

It is a 90 BILLION dollar business, people and the industry DOES NOT CARE if there are long term consequences for your children.

Isis, you are beyond ignorant. Where the hell did I say that I "medicated my child without trying anything else?" You are just assuming and are an idiot. I normally wouldn't resort to calling someone an idiot, but you have really crossed the line, jerk. Go back and look at Summer's posts. We tried ALL of that and more. You have no idea what we did or didn't do, so who are you to say that. We tried everything we knew of and then some. Why don't you just shut your ignorant A** up. People like ME tried everything and nothing was working. I truly think you are the sick one. Spend a day in my shoes or Summer's and maybe you wake up, but probably not.

jemerz: Obviously isis didn't read your post. Good luck with you son - he's lucky to have a parent that is on his side, and doing what is best for him.

GrammaKnows: Of course there are serious side effects with this medication. I know with my son, he is monitored every month for side effects. I don't know of a single child that is not closely monitored.

I left stuff out and you just assumed. No surprise. You're right. This is over. I'm taking my kids somewhere and being a good mom.

isis:

From jenerz first post:

I have a child with ADHD and is on medication (as a last resort.

Sufficient reading comprehension will tell you that she tried other things prior than using medication. jenerz is under no obligation to tell you (or anyone else not involved in the treatment of her child) what those other things were

You replied to her with:

People like YOU who medicate their child WITHOUT trying anything else make me sick.

Clearly you either did not read her first post or have poor reading comprehension. That is not jenerz fault.

Then you go on to use foul language and claim she was replying to your posts - you're the one that initiated a conversation with her.

btw - I've reported your post as 13.5 as inflammatory. There is no need to tell someone to shut the f*** up or behave in the manner you have in that post.

NEWSFLASH: If you do not want people to make assumptions STOP LEAVING THINGS OUT! It's that simple!

NEWSFLASH: Read what was posted and you would've known she used medication as a last resort. It's that simple.

She is under NO obligation to tell you what other methods she used in an attempt to treat her son's ADHD before adding medication.

You're not going to sway me on this, Summer. Nowhere in her post does it hint that she tried other methods.....so if anyone assumes, it's her fault for leaving stuff out.

DID I SAY she was under any obligation? HUH? ANSWER ME, DID I SAY THAT???? NO!

But the FACT is, there would NOT have been assumptions made had she provided COMPLETE information. This is true. This is correct. This is fact. DEAL WITH IT.

Isis: Go back and re-read her first post about this, and you will find:

I have a child with ADHD and is on medication (as a last resort.)

Notice the part in parenthesis (that I put in bold for you). Now, be honest with yourself and everyone else - what do you think this means? Most people with any common sense would understand that "as a last resort" means they tried other things first.

The fact is you chose to either 1) NOT read her post and made the BAD assumption that she hadn't tried non-medication therapies first, or 2) you made a conscious choice to ignore part of her post.

Had you taken the time to actually read and comprehend her post OR not made the conscious choice to ignore part of her post, you wouldn't have made assumptions. Don't blame her or anyone else for your inability or unwillingness to actually read a post completely before you reply.

There is a huge gap between a thorough diagnosis and "monitoring". A child who is "monitored" is being watched for the development of dangerous side effects. A child who has been properly, medically evaluated for the CAUSE and ORIGIN of the symptoms has been properly diagnosed.

To know which one the doctor is doing is very simple. How many lab tests were done to rule out metabolic, toxic and allergic origins of the symptoms? Were auditory and vision processing evaluations done? Was there an EEG or MEG done to rule out epileptiform activity?

If these invesstigations were not done, and the prescription was in-hand before the end of the first appointment, then the doctor is ony watching for the development of side effects, not for the long term health of the child. To START medications like this in children barely out of infancy is appalling.

It is best to ignore Isis. I have run into her on several occasions commenting on ADHD articles. She had some bad experiences as a child and assumes everybody is out to ruin their childs life. I'm sorry for the trauma you edured Isis, but not every parent is like yours, in fact most aren't. Arguing whith Isis will get you no where because only her opinion is correct.

GrammaKnows: Yes my son was property diagnosed. He's had EEG's, CT scans (looking for brain abnormalities), lab tests for many different things. He does have food allergies - these were known well before his diagnosis with ADHD. In fact, his allergies are so severe they MUST be avoided to prevent anapylaxis. He is also monitored with various tests for side effects.

Medication was a last resort - after a few years of behavior modification therapy, and other non-pharmacological therapies. The prescription was far from in hand before the first appointment.

That said - I am not comfortable with diagnosis children at 4 years old (whether they use medication or not).

name me one mitochrondrial disorder that can mimic the symptoms of ADHD

Even if there is one, adhd is WAY more common....there's a saying in medicine: when you hear hoofbeats, look for a horse (not a zebra)

I don't think its unreasonable to try a trial of medicines that are relatively inexpensive compared to the million dollar workup you propose

That being said, I do think adhd is REALLY overdiagnosed and lowering the age to 4 does sound a bit much

eric - here are studies. Elevated oxidative stress is a clinical marker for ADHD:
http://www.ravenintellections.com/adhd-sk/adhd-mito.htm

So these studies you quoted talk about how oxidative stress affects myocardial function. That is not a "myocardial disease"--it just describes how certain alterations in cellular metabolism affect organelle function

In addition, "oxidative stress" is a extremely nonspecific finding, as your many articles show. Besides affecting myocardial function, oxidative stress is thought to lead to cancer, some heart disease, etc

Whether its present or not in adhd I honestly don't know, nor do I see the point of as its so nonspecific.

First of all, it is not "myocardial" it is Mitochondrial. Myocardial pertains to heart muscle. Mitochondria are the powerhouses within almost all of the cells in the body. It produces cellular energy. It also houses the mitochondrial DNA. When the mitochondria does not function correctly it deprives the body of nutrients for proper cell replication, of the ability to detoxify substances from inside the cells (including oxygen) which in excess can cause cell death - that's oxygens that are not being turned into water and carried away but accumulate, causing cell death.

MYOCARDIA, or the heart muscle is affected by oxidative stress because of the cell death, but that is not the subject that I am raising here. The point being is that if the doctor is not investigating insufficient performance of the mitochondria, the child is not being evaluated for medical - and TREATABLE - medical conditions before piling on amphetamines, and in truth, impaired mitochondrial function with oxidative stress is made WORSE by amphetamines & amphetamine derivatives. They increase the excitotoxicity of the free oxygen. Mitochondria not only powers our cell energy, it also decides when the cells should die.

I do not expect you to see the point other than it is far more complex a metabolic issue than dumping amphetamine derivatives into young children (or anyone for that matter) can solve because those chemicals are not intended to SOLVE metabolic medical problems. They are used to make people sit down, shut up and to remember things for a long enough time to pass a test. Neither the manufacturers, the prescribers, and quite frankly whether it is through ignorance of dangers or trust in someone elses' authority, the parents who ask for these drugs simply DO NOT CARE about whther the REASON little Johnny is calmer is that the excitotoxicity in his dysfunctional mitochondria wasn't calmed down by fixing a medical problem - it was calmed down because the cells were killed off. Cells with the ability to function correctly if given adequate nutrients to prevent oxidative stress and support mitochondrial function killed off instead. Great news if you are 4 years old.

so you know youre explaining myocardium to a cardiologist, right?

It was just a typo, I think/write the word myocardium 100 times a day

And its MYOCARDIUM not MYOCARDIA

the rest of your post is nonsenical

i'm with eric on the last post. that was a bit of a fustercluck. it's kind of a stretch saying adhd is a mitochondrial disease.

Ritalin has been around since the early 1900's

Yeah, and it STILL is dangerous...they had me drugged up on Lithium....I thought they stopped using that, but no...........

FINALLY! Somebody who knows what is REALLY going on with children! Somebody who is WELL AWARE of the DANGERS and tradgedies that these drugs cause!

Like I said in my above post...if only more Americans were as informed as you are.

isis,

you seem to have an axe to grind with the medical community that is likely affecting your objectivity.

The above poster has a bunch of ridiculous claims with ZERO evidence. How can you believe someone who says:

"inhibit further neurologic depletion"

That statment is beyond meaningless...it doesn't even make sense. And it really gives one pause as to the rest of his claims

Zero evidence.....www.ritalindeath.com. Go READ THOSE STORIES. I HIGHLY doubt that those people would lie about that....so much for zero evidence, genius.

Check you percentages, they're wrong.

Where in my post are there percentages? Where did I mention percentages? NOWHERE!

I'm talking about the stories submitted by real parents about the real deaths of their children from these drugs.

I'll tell what it doesnt take a "genius" to understand

That ritalindeath.com is not a credible, unbiased source. That personal anectodes are NOT evidence, no matter what you think

That has to make sense to you. Do you think because the national enquirer published that elvis is an elementary school principal in Idaho, that now its the gospel?

come on, you can do better than that.

Well, what else caused it then? And NO MATTER what caused these deaths, you CANNOT CANNOT CANNOT deny the fact that these medications have MISERABLE, UNPLEASANT, and DANGEROUS side effects. NO child should be placed on them.

Like I keep saying, it's like playing Russian Roulette with your child's health. And the chambers are loaded with horrifying stuff.

isis: There are percentages in turbulance's post (the one you agreed with). I believe that is who Chris Morehouse was replying to - not to you.

Im even generous enough to help you out

Pediatrics. 2011 Jun;127(6):1102-10. Epub 2011 May 16.
Cardiovascular events and death in children exposed and unexposed to ADHD agents

CONCLUSIONS:

The rate of cardiovascular events in exposed children was very low and in general no higher than that in unexposed control subjects

This was a study of over 200,000 children taking ritalin. The medical examiner in your website was obviously talking out of his butt. Or the poor child had some other unidentified disease. Or he was a very rare victim of a side effect. Its possible. But not likely

That is real evidence. Not some unverifiable story online. The fact that you call that evidence is laughable

isis,

that's my WHOLE point. Who knows what caused his death? It couldve been the air quality in his town, or something in the water. These are no less ridiculous than your assumption. Dont just guess it was the drug because you have an agenda

Every drug has side effects, and some are unpleasant. Its a risks/benefits scenerio. For example, if the "side effect" of NOT taking the medicine includes inattention in school, bad grades, no college or career, than it may be worth it to the patient.

Thats a decision for him, NOT for you

You are not going to change my mind on this....it is likely that the medication caused these deaths....I'm not saying it's certain but the POSSIBILITY IS THERE. YOU CANNOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT THE POSSIBILITY IS THERE.

You "people" can stop trying to change how I see this...and I use the term "people" loosely, since so many of you advocate giving dangerous drugs to kids who have BARELY begun to develop.

Im not stupid enough to think that I can change your mind. You have it made up, and are evidently pretty close minded. You take the word of one story OFF THE INTERNET over a study at UPENN of 200,000 kids

Sure, i can't show that the drug DIDNT cause his death. Which is essentially asking me to prove a negative, which is logically impossible.

Watch: I cant PROVE it wasnt the water--lets close off the water supply. I cant PROVE it wasn't the sun--lets block it out.

See? Ridiculous

But show me ANY other case where ritalin has done this. Just one.

If you can't, ask yourself why this was the ONLY kid it happened to, of the millions around the world currently taking the med. Then ask yourself if you still believe that it is the cause of death

whoa, relax!

Reread my post again: I said your MIND is made up, not your story. Hahaha, reread, and chill

Even if there are stories ONLINE about this happening, it doesn't make it true. A bunch of bad evidence is no better than a little bit of bad evidence. Especially on the internet

Watch: Obama is really the head of al-qaeda. Now I have put something on the internet. Does that make it true?

No

Cow cookies! Not only is it real, it runs in families. I have a sister, three nephews, and my own son diagnosed. I don't think it is really understood very well. I suspect from experience that people who suffer from it have low stress threshold. That can be compensated for to some extent, but the problem is that the stress of trying to cope without the meds aggravates the problem. With the meds, my son is honor roll, and heading for principal's list. Without, he'd be flunking and in constant trouble. Teachers where I live tell me they have students they are sure need the meds, but parents won't do it, and the kids are paying the price, academically, and in self esteem, as they are in trouble a lot. As the child's academics and behavior improve with the meds, they feel less stressed, have better social interaction, and the quality of life is greatly improved. There is no addiction, as we cope without pills in the summer with no ill effect. My son tried school last year without the meds, but after a few months, the stress became too much, and he had to get back on them to stay out of trouble, and pass his classes. Most parents will tell you they'd rather do without the pills, but the meds give the best relief, and buy time to build coping skills. My son is doing well enough that we have not had to increase his dosage in 5-6 years, although he has grown and put on 40+ lbs. The meds are not a cure, and we still have to cope at home, because the pills are used for school only. I won't have his future derailed when there is something to be done for him, right now, today. We can continue to work on long term, but he does not have to suffer while that's happening.

What is true about kids with ADHD is that often parents have it as well, but have gone undiagnosed.

This is also not a new phenomenon, but has been documented for well over 100 years. I would not call it an illness, exactly, more like a wiring issue in the brain. People are not all cast in the same mold, and one size fits all causes a lot of problems for children, especially in education.

The risks of Ritalin are not as great as the risks of impulsive behavior. Untreated ADHD has been linked to drug addiction, criminal activity, and daredevil antics. All of these are far riskier than the medication. The side effects in terms of appetite can be a problem, but it can be managed. We started serving dinner later, so he'd be ready to eat, kept him off pills at night and on weekends, and now during the summer as well. We made sure he got good food, and gave him caloric/nutritional supplementation. He is now 6 ft tall, still a bit thin, but given the obesity in his father's family, that's a good thing. He's very healthy, misses far less school than the other kids, so with good management side effects can be dealt with. I had plenty of misgivings about medication at first, until I saw the results. I am also still looking for other viable treatments. I hope someday there will be a cure. For now, I am going to stick with what works.

nonsense

humans used to die of diarrhea at age 20 before antibiotics. Women used to die routinely during childbirth as a matter of course. Now its nearly unheard of. Strokes were named because it was thought to be the "stroke" of g-d's hand swiping the victim. Now people can have productive lives and even have strokes aborted if they get to the hospital quick enough

Medicine is one of the greatest accomplishments of civilization.

While adhd may be overdiagnosed, and not all cases require meds, to denegrate all of medicine and psychiatry specifically is just ignorant

Eric.

I never spoke to Western medicine as a whole. Western physical medicine, despite being objectionable in many ways not relevant to this conversation, is effective at curing certain physical ailments and effectively treating others.

I'll start by noting that you've made the mistake of analogizing physical ailments to psychological ailments. The two are not analogous.

The vast majority of physical ailments can be objectively defined by the presence or absence of a causitive element or physical abnormality (see, for example, the presence of streptococccal bacteria, the flu virus, HIV, cancer, hemorrhoids, etc. etc. etc.).

Moreover, human physical features are identical, and no reference to a necessarily arbitrary standard of "normal" is necessary in most cases as is the case with human consciousness. Noting, of course, that with respect to physical ailments, the exception is that certain chronic ailments like hypoglycemia are defined by reference to a mean blood sugar or some other bodily fluid/cell--which is distinguishable because a "count" of some sort is referenced rather than a psychiatrists subjective observations.

Again, you've failed to distinguish physical medicine from psychological quasi-medicine, with its quasi-maladies and quasi-therapies and quasi-treatments (not cures). The two are vastly different.

Its not a mistake

Many psychological disorders can ALSO be traced to a causative element (inadequate production of serotonin, as in depression, or dopamin in parkinson's, or overproductin of dopamine in psychosis)

As far as your claims of "normal" and psychiatry having more difficultly in quantitiative assesments, well, sure. But if a patient is hallucinating, and thinks the tv is talking to them, well, thats easy

And if a kid keeps getting into trouble at school and can't pay attention, I agree it may not be a medical disorder. Adhd is overdiagnosed

But it could be. And to dismess psychiatry because you don't understand the basic mechanisms of psychiatric disease is ignorant

Eric. Your blind belief in the cult of psychology is sophomoric. Are you an undergrad?

I understand some psychiatric symptoms have been traced to physical abnormalities (which is analogous to hypoglycemia and blood sugar (which is why I noted it above)). Please note, however, that unlike a physical malady, the diagnosis is for these "psychological disorders" for which we suspect a chemical cause is still based upon a psychiatrist's subjective observations of the outward symptoms of the patient (i.e., if they display 4 out of 8 then the diagnosis is a "yes"). The diagnosis is not determined by a test to determine which of these chemicals is present or absent. Moreover, these "psychological disorders" for which we've determined a correlative chemical deficiency/surplus account for less than half of the "mental disorders" identified in the DSM. How do you think they were testing for "homosexuality" during the days of the DSM III?

Have they taught you DSM diagnostics yet? Enjoy that revelation.

Moreover, you're still failing to grasp the basic distinction between the definition of a physical malady and a psychological "disorder", and the philosophical implications of that distinction when a group of people deem themselves to be "psychiatrists/psychologists", create a bunch a "disorders" out of thin air and start medicating, stigmatizing and locking up other people that they determine has one of these disorders.

I don't see this conversation going any further. But I do wish you good luck with your studies, Eric. Take care.

Your ignorance really has no bounds

First off, don't make assumptions. I have an MD, am board certified in internal medicine, and nearly done with cardiology fellowship. I really doubt you even graduated high school

Secondly, you are fascinated with lab tests. Guess what: there's a well known saying in medicine that the diagnosis can be made 70% of the time with the old fashioned history and physical alone. Lab tests are usually ordered to confirm or deny what you already know

While certainly psychiatry is a "softer" science than cardiology, and relies more on physicians' medical judgement than lab tests, that does not make it invalid (see above paragraph)

IN fact, if medicine was as simple as you claim (simply look at a test and make a diagnosis) than even YOU could do it

Somehow, I doubt that

Good luck to you, you're going to need it in life

utter nonsense

You do not know that this is nonsense...my guess is that you're just going along with all the "adhd" hype, like everyone else.

no, i use my brain and facts

Try it

Watch, i'll give you an example. There is no CREDIBLE evidence, scientific studies, or plausable medical reason for ritalin to cause a "progression to other mental illness" (aside from addiction, i'll give you that. But I don't think that's what the poster meant)

See? its easy

You obviously haven't seen a child suffering from the side effects of these drugs.

Ive seen plenty. And its not what you claim.

And again, see my above post. The side effects of NOT taking it may be worse. Its a personal decision for the parents and the patient

If they think its safe, and the doctor thinks its safe, and the FDA thinks its safe, do you really think your opinion based on nothing means anything?

You've seen plenty, and so have I...and I feel so bad for the kids I've seen....some of them just sat there, staring off into space totally blank....they weren't totally motionless, but it's disturbing.

The side effects of NOT taking it may be worse. Its a personal decision for the parents and the patient

If they think its safe, and the doctor thinks its safe, and the FDA thinks its safe, do you really think your opinion based on nothing means anything?

Isis's opinion isn't based on "nothing." It's based on personal experience, which is more important than whether or not parents, doctors, or the FDA "think" or "believe" giving these meds to children is safe for the long term.

In case you haven't noticed, the FDA has approved and doctors have prescribed many drugs that are in fact, not safe.

The newest ADHD drug for children, Intuit, has only been subjected to very limited testing, as acknowledged by the manufacturer. Yet it is being marketed as an ADHD add-on med. To be given to your child in addition to their current ADHD drug if it is not completely resolving ADHD symptoms (ie., the child is still "misbehaving").

The first drug isn't working so give the child another drug. It's the epitome of insanity.

traveler63: Intuniv is a brand name of extended release guanafacine. The non-extended release form of this is Tenex. It has been found to be beneficial as an add-on in ADHD. Guanafacine is a sympatholytic that can be used to reduce blood pressure and it acts on the prefrontal cortex for regulation of attention and behavior. This medication has actually been around for many years - it was originally introducted as a hypertension medication, and was found to have positive actions with attention and behavior (this actually happens with a lot of medications - they are generated for one use, but found to have benefits in other areas also - Viagra is actually a good example of this, but that's another story).

Also, ADHD isn't simply the child "misbehaving" there is a lot more to it than that.

Also, many conditions are treated with multiple drugs. I have severe asthma - I take 6 medications daily for maintenance of it, and have a rescue inhaler. I have to take so many medications for it because none of them, as a monotherapy, work well. Cardiac problems often involve more than one treatment. Many other conditions are the same way - for some people, they may take multiple medications in order to successfully treat.

Actually Summer ADHD is entirely behavioral; there is not one single diagnostic symptom of ADHD that is not behavioral. It is classified as a psychological "disorder" because all the behaviors are considered by our current culture to be "bad."

It really doesn't matter that a drug has been around for a long time and used safely (although I'm sure that is debatable) for adults for other conditions. What matters is that it has only been subjected to very limited testing for use with children. I'm sure you are aware that children's brains are developmentally very different from adult brains. The manufacturer openly admits to the limited testing Ituniv has been subjected to and therefore to give it to a child is taking a big risk, particulary when ADHD is soley a behavioral problem.

traveler63: I didn't say ADHD wasn't behavioral, I said that the ADHD child isn't simply misbehaving. These are two entirely different statements. In fact, you bring up a good point - that a child's brain is different than an adults. Not only this - but an ADHD's child's brain is different than a non-ADHD child's brain. PET scans show that an ADHD child has different activity in different parts of the brain than ADHD children. PET scans aren't used routinely for diagnosis because they are ridiculously expensive.

I never claimed that Intuniv has been extensively tested in children either. I simply pointed out that the drug isn't really new (as you claimed it was).

Perhaps I didn't communicate my meaning clearly to you in my previous post.

Well maybe you should go back and read my original post. I didn't claim Intuniv was new; I said it was the newest ADHD drug for children.

ADHD isn't just behavioral - it is *entirely* behavioral. It is considered "treated" or "managed" when behavior is modified, not when a PET scan shows that brain activity has been altered to now look like a non-ADHD child.

As a prominent neurologist once told me, "Brains are like snowflakes; no two are exactly the same." Of course there are differences among childrens' brains. These differences are a source of the uniqueness among individuals. What a shame that people in our society have decided that certain behaviors, such as hyperactivity, are so bad that they need to eradicated.

First, you called it Inuit (which isn't even an ADHD drug, but I figured that was a typo, we all make typo's). Second, the way you phrased it, I wasn't sure if you actually knew that Intuniv was the extended release form of an old drug being marketed for a relatively speaking new use or if you thought it was actually a new drug.

Third, I never once said that ADHD was considered treated or managed when the PET scans of an ADHD child matched the PET scans of a non-ADHD child. I said that there are differences that can be seen on PET scan between the ADHD brain and the non-ADHD brain. This means that different neurons are firing at different times, for different lengths of times, etc., etc. This also indicates that the neurotransmitters are being released in different quantities in different parts of the brain. This means that there are neurological and biochemical differences between the ADHD and non-ADHD brain. These differences manifest as differences in behavior. In other words, it is a disorder that displays it's symptoms as a behavioral problem, but has a basis in neurological and biochemical differences. In other words - it's not simply "misbehaving". ADHD behavior is due to neurological and biochemical differences; whereas simply misbehaving doesn't have the neurological and biochemical differences seen with ADHD. The biochemical and neurological pathogenesis of ADHD is why medications can work for some kids.

Interestingly, the PET scans of a treated ADHD child are very similar to the PET scans of a non-ADHD child. When these trials were done, some ADHD children showed PET scans that were similar to non-ADHD children after non-pharmaceutical treatments only; other ADHD children in these trials required the addition of ADHD medications to achieve these changes.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying medication should be the first line of treatment for ADHD. Behavior modification, dietary changes, etc., etc. can all help alter the neurons firing and help with the biochemistry. In fact, I think these should be tried first because they have less potential for negative side effects than the medication does. Medication should only be used as a last resort in the cases where the non-pharmaceutical therapies fail to manage the symptoms of ADHD.

These differences are a source of the uniqueness among individuals. What a shame that people in our society have decided that certain behaviors, such as hyperactivity, are so bad that they need to eradicated.

While there are some that think all hyperactivity needs to eradicated, this isn't the goal of treating ADHD. In fact, typical hyperactivity isn't part of ADHD. Atypical, pervasive hyperactivity for the child's development in more than one environment is considered part of ADHD.

Think about it like this - OCD (which I have) is an anxiety disorder that, essentially, is comprised of compulsive behaviors performed to manage obsessive thoughts that generate massive anxiety. Everyone has anxiety at times, everyone has things they obsess over at times, everyone has compulsive, habitual behaviors. It's not considered OCD until it becomes disruptive to your ability to function in daily life. ADHD is similar to this - ALL people (adults or kids) have problems focusing at times, all people are hyperactive sometimes, all people can be impulsive at times. It's not an issue until it becomes so pervasive that it impedes your ability to function in daily life.

I will be the first to admit - some parents and some teachers - view any amount of hyperactivity, impulsiveness or lack of focus as if it's impeding the child's life. This is wrong, imo. Which is why we need to have very careful screening and testing for ADHD. It's also part of the reason why I disagree with lowering the minimum age for diagnosing ADHD to 4 years old. A 4 year old is barely out of the toddler phase. There is no way I would have accepted someone trying to tell me my son had ADHD at 4 years old.

Please provide the source for the PET scan studies. I would like to read them.

It's obvious that you have convinced yourself that you are doing the right thing for child by giving him/her a powerful stimulant medication while their brain is still deveoping. Hopefully for your child's sake, you are right and they will suffer no health consequences for the risk you are taking. And it is a risk, because no one knows for certain that these drugs are safe in the long term.

Traveler63: I will look for the studies for you later today and post them once I find the links. I'm in the middle of class right now and really should be paying attention. I don't want you to think I'm ignoring that - I will get to it later tonight when I have the time.

Of course there are risks with these medications - I've repeatedly (in various places on this thread) said these are serious medications and should be monitored very closely and not entered into lightly or even as a first choice. To be honest though, all medications - even a simple aspirin can have serious side effects.

For my son, taking these medications as an adjunct to other therapies is what helps him with his symptoms. As I said, ADHD, like many disorders isn't a disorder until it interferes with the person's ability to function. It's not simple hyperactivity, impulsiveness or lack of focus that are often seen in children and are, to be honest, necessary and wonderful parts of childhood. It's pervasive and limits their ability to function within their life. It's hard for someone who hasn't experienced it (either themselves or as a parent of a child with ADHD) to understand how much of an affect ADHD can have on a child.

I do think there are parents that jump to medication way to soon in treating ADHD. If the ADHD can be managed without the medication, then why use medication? To use medication (whether it be for ADHD, asthma, a headache, or anything else) when it isn't needed, is just exposing someone to unnecessary risks. Believe me, if the other non-pharmaceutical therapies were enough for my son, I wouldn't use the medication. If there ever comes a time that he can do without the medication - we we discontinue the medication at that time.

Traveler, here are a couple of links about the studies that have been done. The research is ongoing and oneday may lead to a better way to accurately diagnose and treat kids with ADHD. As parents, we all want what is best for our kids and hope we are making the right decisions.

http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/news/20031204/brain-scans-reveal-adhd-differences

http://newideas.net/adhd/research/structural-neurology-adhd