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It was only a matter of time. The Tea Party has risen up in Pinellas County, Fla., and ensured that kids who live there will face a lifetime of dental problems, risky oral infections and big hits to their wallets, all done in the name of moral blindness and scientific stupidity. They have gotten the county commissioners to agree to take fluoride out of the water supply.
Pinellas County — basically Tampa-St. Petersburg— provides water to about 700,000 people. Like most Americans, those people, particularly children, have benefited from the addition of fluoride to the water supply. The rate of tooth decay in the U.S., Europe and many other nations has fallen dramatically, between 18 to 40 percent, since the pre-fluoride days of many decades ago. Dentists and scientists know why — fluoridation.
Cavities are not just a minor nuisance. They lead to the loss of teeth, chewing problems, dangerous infections that can kill, and ultimately to a lousy quality of life as you get older and cannot eat. Since access to dental care in America is crummy, this is a huge problem.
Too many kids don’t learn to practice good oral hygiene, a whole bunch eat too much sugary food and way too many live in families that cannot afford to see a dentist at all. For them, fluoridation is far and away their best hope.
Yet, despite overwhelming evidence that fluoridation is safe, it somehow remains controversial.
Aside from some tooth discoloration, which may be able to be fixed by lowering the amount of fluoride used, there is no health risk. In January, in response to the cosmetic issue, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services announced a proposal to change the recommended fluoride level to 0.7 milligrams per liter of water. That’s down from a range of 0.7 to 1.2 milligrams per liter, the standard since 1962, reported the Associated Press.
Story: Florida county to take the flouride out of water
The fears of the far-right John Birchers of yesteryear, the spiritual forefathers of the Tea Party of today, have not proven true. No one has grown a second head, had his or her pure bodily fluids corrupted or become a dupe of the Soviet Union or its rapacious capitalist successor Russia due to fluoride in the water.
What we are left with is kids being harmed by know-nothing ignorance from a group of people more interested in talk of freedom than the facts of science and public health. Morally, fluoridation is something we do to help one another and to protect those who cannot protect themselves. Apparently the Tea Party of Pinellas County, and the county commissioners who bought their drivel, do not give a damn about either.
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All I can think about is Dr Strangelove P.O.E.
Next these anti-science Luddites will start smashing the printing presses and looms. Then, vaccinations...until one of their kids get sick and dies. Then they'll gnash their teeth (the ones with holes in them from no fluoride) and say they didn't know.
Taking cholorine out of the water is the obvious next step. Exceptionally toxic. Kills germs in the water, but what the heck, it's toxic, you know?
The anti-fluoride, anti-vaccine, anti-science crowd defines the square root of stupid.
Fluoride is neither a nutrient nor essential for healthy teeth. It cures nothing and heals nothing and has never been tested or approved by FDA as safe and effective for human ingestion.
There are many large scientific studies to show that drinking fluoridated water has no positive effect on cavity reduction and to show that it causes cancer, thyroid damage, broken hips, lowered IQ and other health problems. The best source for scientific infomation on fluoridation can be found here:
www.fluoridealert.org).
If fluoride were "proven," there should be evidence of its success in the U.S. state, Kentucky, which has been 100% fluoridated for over 40 years. However, government records show that Kentucky leads the nation in the number of dental cavities in children, and in the number of completely toothless adults. The same ineffectiveness is evident in many states and cities.
Most of Europe (16 countries) has considered and has rejected fluoridation and is 98% fluoride free. The World Health Organization reports that these countries have a better tooth decay rate than any fluoridated country.
this article was written solely to bash the TP. I am a civil engineer who specializes in water treatment.
Fluoride is not needed and constitutes a hazard to those that consume it. Shame on the author who blatantly lies in the article.
Even if fluoride was helpful to teeth, trying to distribute any drug in drinking water is the most expensive and wasteful way to do it.
People drink only 1/2% (one-half percent) of the water they use. The remaining 99 ½ % of the toxic fluoride chemical is dumped directly into our environment through the sewer system. I am a Civil Engineer, so I am very familiar with community water systems.
For example, for every $1000 of fluoride chemical added to water, $995 would be directly wasted down the drain in toilets, showers, dishwashers, etc., $5 would be consumed in water by the people, and less than $0.50 (fifty cents) would be consumed by children, the target group for this misguided practice. Your local water department can confirm all of this.
That would be comparable to buying one gallon of milk, using six-and-one-half drops of it, and pouring the rest of the gallon in the sink.
Can you think of a more wasteful government program? Giving away fluoride tablets free to anyone who wants them would be far cheaper and certainly more ethical, because then we would have the freedom to choose.
We have a generation of proof nationally that fluoride in drinking water works and doesn't cause harm. We save $38 in oral decay treatment for every $1 we spend to fluoridate water.
THAT'S WHY THE MAJORITY OF AMERICA DOES IT.
Um, don't you mean stupid squared?
Math much?
...that's a rhetorical question, in case you're confused.
I am very much pro-science, which is why I oppose water fluoridation. There's a significant amount of research that suggests ingesting fluoride is harmful. European countries have discontinued fluoridation and tooth decay rates have not risen. Modern toothpaste provides all the fluoride our teeth need. Just because some people see socialistic-style control behind every government program does not mean fluoridation is safe. There are legitimate reasons to oppose it.
Ingesting large amounts can cause nausea but that is far from "harmful" as some claim. In any case, 0.7ng/mL is hardly enough to cause those symptoms. Eating toothpaste (which kids often do) will cause those symptoms.
Anyhow, I agree that for the majority of America fluoridation has zero impact. It's only meant for children, and even that is questionable given the improvement in dental hygiene and education over the past few decades. You can stop fluoride treatments in the age range of 7-10 for most kids. We used to do "swish" cups in elementary school, far more effective at delivering fluoride. Save money by removing fluoride from the drinking water, and allocate that money for free dental clinics in low-income areas.
@Bart Connor - Where is the 'generation of proof' exactly that says "fluoride in water works and doesn't cause harm"?
Also, could you please explain why the FDA has never approved of adding fluoride in water? "its called Public Health"...give me a break.
Do us all a favor and go to www.fluoridealert.org and read a little. Afterwhich, perhaps we could then have a debate worthy of merit.
There is no test for toxicity FSA's are not fluoride, it takes four times the amount of this product to make 1ppm "fluoride" does that mean we are ingesting 4ppm of the very heavy metals that are quoted as causing smokers cancer? arsenic ,cadmium,lead,mercury, etc. .. how does poison from the aluminium smelters, fertiliser smokestacks sweepings and fallout be good for your teeth?
This article is a great example of why I don't trust media. Tell me Mr. Ph. D., what you think about the sound coming from my car's engine? Oh wait... you're not qualified to comment on auto mechanics? Well your degrees in history and philosophy sure seem to give you leeway to speak as though you're a primary researcher instead of a "bio-ethicist"
Next time MSNBC needs an opinion on whether water fluoridation causes the litany of health problems it's been proven to cause, and whether the dental benefits that have been proven false are worth brain damage, I hope they get a McDonald's manager to write a "scientific opinion."
MSNBC EPIC FAIL
Fluoride is HAZARDOUS WASTE!! 18 to 40 percent decrease in gum disease and cavities 80 years ago was from the extension of germ theory to teeth and having more people brush. I sure am not one to side with the Tea Party, but they are right on this one. Fluoridated water is a scam perpetrated by industry as a way to get rid of a very dangerous, poisonous waste. Open your eyes.
Open yours. I have seen too many kiddos with false teeth before they graduate from high school living in areas without floridated water.
And what of the kids who grow up in areas where floride is naturally leeched into the water from surrounding rocks?
It is not a scam but then maybe you have never known someone who died from a heart attack as a result of severe gum disease or seen a child with a mouth full of silver caps because their teeth have rotted.
My kids got floride treatments because they had teeth so close together they couldn't get floss between them. They each have wonderful teeth and have had extensive dental work to straighten their teeth simply because I was unable to afford ordonthia AND a dentist when they were kids.
Without floride and good care they would be toothless now-----People without teeth regardless of intellect look stupid and inbred and generally have other health issues.-
Smarten up curt. or may your teeth suffer the effects of poor floridation.
"I have seen too many kiddos with false teeth before they graduate from high school ..."
Sure you have...hyperbolize much? Poison your brats all you want (sounds like a sweet gene pool you got there), leave me and mine out of it.
The efficacy of fluoride in drinking water pales in comparison to regular brushing with toothpaste. As a water treatment professional, I encourage you to all look into where fluoride comes from (hint: industrial waste) and when the initial studies were done on the benefits (the 40's). Hopefully the entire country wakes up and stops wasting money on dumping poison into our water.
Curt, quit reading uninformed crap on any old internet site. As you know, you can find someone saying almost anything on the internet. That does not make it true. Go to your local library (it is free) and get a good nutrition text book off the shelf. Consult the index and find the section on fluoride. You will see pictures of teeth. You will see the pictures of healthy vs. decayed teeth. If you are really interested, go to MedLine through the National Library of Medicine on the internet. Look up the research on fluoride and dental health. You will see that this is no longer a theory......... it is a fact that consuming adequate fluoride really does reduce tooth problems.
Of course, like almost anything you can name, too much is not good and can be toxic, but, the levels added to the water supply is safe by a factor of thousands. Please stop spreading your non-information....... you are very wrong. The fluoride added to the water supply is not a toxic waste product and any that is contaminated with other waste is not added to the water supply. By the way, you may be confusing fluorine (which is a toxic gas) with fluoride (a salt, usually sodium combined with fluorine to make sodium fluoride or hexafluorosilicic acid (H2SiF6) and its salt sodium hexafluorosilicate (Na2SiF6) which are more commonly used in water supplies and are much less toxic than elemental fluorine.
"Another difference between effects of fluoride and those of sulfur and chloride is that, after accumulation of fluoride in fodder plants, injury to animals can occur. Extensive economic losses to agriculture occur from fluorosis, especially of cattle, which is presently the most important disease directly traceable to air pollutant effects." - Guderian R. (1977). Air Pollution: Phytotoxicity of Acidic Gases and Its Significance in Air Pollution Control. Berlin: Springer Verlag.
"A close relationship between the levels of fluoride exposure and work-related asthmatic symptoms has been observed." - Soyseth V, et al. (1994). Relation between exposure to fluoride and bronchial responsiveness in aluminum potroom workers with work-related asthma-like symptoms. Thorax 49(10): 984-989.
"Occupational exposure to fluoride has a harmful effect on the higher functions of the central nervous system, negatively influencing both cognitive and autonomic functioning. There is a definite relationship between the damage caused by fluoride and the level of exposure." - Guo Z, et al. (2001). Study on neurobehavioral function of workers occupationally exposed to fluoride. Industrial Health and Occupational Disease 27:346-348.
"The fluoride exposed workers had a higher frequency of joint pain and stiffness than the control group. This joint pain resulted in disability in some cases." - Boillat MA, et al. (1980). Radiological criteria of industrial fluorosis. Skeletal Radiology 5: 161-165.
"The occupational standard for fluorides in the United States has not changed to any major extent since the late 1940s... Only recently have data become available suggesting not only that these standards have provided inadequate protection to workers exposed to fluorine and fluorides, but that for decades industry has possessed the information necessary to identify the standards' inadequacy and to set more protective threshold levels of exposure." - Mullenix PJ. (2005). Fluoride poisoning: a puzzle with hidden pieces. International Journal of Occupational and Environmental Health 11(4):404-14.
"Because, in soft waters with low ionic content, a fluoride concentration as low as 0.5 mg/l can adversely affect invertebrates and fishes, safe levels below this fluoride concentration are recommended in order to protect freshwater animals from fluoride pollution." - Camargo JA. (2003). Fluoride toxicity to acquatic oganisms: a review. Chemosphere 50(3): 251-264.
"An interim water quality guideline of 0.12 mg F/L is recommended for the protection of all stages of freshwater life against the adverse effects of total inorganic fluorides." - Environment Canada. (2001). Canadian Water Quality Guidelines for the Protection of Aquatic Life: Inorganic Fluorides. National Guidelines and Standards Office, Environmental Quality Branch, Environment Canada, Ontario.
"The results of our behavioral experiments suggest that fluoride concentrations of about 0.5 mg/L adversely affect the migration of adult salmon and that 0.2 mg F/L may be near or below the threshold for fluoride sensitivity in chinook and coho salmon." - Damkaer DM, Dey DB. (1989). Evidence for fluoride effects on salmon passage at John Day Dam, Columbia River, 1982-1986. North American Journal of Fisheries Management. 9: 154-162.
"Sublethal concentrations may have adverse effects on fish behavior or reproduction, which could be ecologically significant. Research findings are few and not confirmed, but trout eggs seem to be delayed in development and hatching by 1.5 ppm fluoride." - Groth E. (1975). Fluoride Pollution. Environment. 17(3): 29-38.
"Inorganic fluorides at low concentrations in the acquatic environment can elicit slight effects that are statistically and ecologically relevant. Sensitive characteristics for fish include survival, growth, reproduction, and behavioural endpoints." - Environment Canada. (2001). Canadian Water Quality Guidelines for the Protection of Aquatic Life: Inorganic Fluorides. National Guidelines and Standards Office, Environmental Quality Branch, Environment Canada, Ontario.
I haven't, and neither have you. Gum disease does not cause heart problems. If you're tempted to defend your position I suggest you do a little research...
And I also suggest you stop insulting people who don't share your opinions. There is significant evidence that suggests ingesting fluoride at the levels found in our water supply has adverse health effects. Just because DDT kills pests and leaded gasoline prevents engine damage does not mean those are necessarily good things, and we owe water fluoridation to the people who approved and promoted these things. We also owe it to fertilizer companies and the US nuclear program, who are the largest producers of fluoride as a waste and who lobbied to not have to pay to dispose of it but rather get paid to dump it in our water.
Andrew547----WRONG. Gum disease has a direct correlation to heart disease.
http://www.perio.org/consumer/mbc.heart.htm
I'd suggest YOU do some research.
Fluoride is a Poison.
@calling bs......who the hell has the right to call someone else's kid a brat?!?!? really?
@ANDREW547....gum disease absolutely DOES cause heart problems, you are incorrect.
You seem confused. What I said is that gum disease does not cause heart disease, which was claimed in a previous post. I know there is a correlation between the two, but correlation is not causation. Maybe you got confused somewhere along the way...
Shouting does not make it so. And no, you are incorrect. There is no evidence that periodontal disease causes heart disease. I wonder if you'll understand why even after its been explained to you. I suspect you won't.
Maddysmommie,
Gum disease does not CAUSE heart disease. Gum disease can cause chronic inflammation syndrome which can cause the body's immune system to attack the lining of blood vessels. This can lead to plaque build up and other problems.
@andrew547...now that i have corrected by a genius i feel much better about the world and everything in it...thank you so much!
gum issues contribute to heart issues....period...is that a better way of putting it Dr. Andrew??
Let me ask you: if scientific research finds a correlation between darker skin and eating bananas, such that the darker the skin the more bananas a person is likely to eat, would you conclude that bananas cause or contribute to dark skin?
Of course, there is no causal relationship between the two. One does not cause the other. While its possible that a correlation could be causation, but in this case we know it's not. All we have between heart disease and periodontal disease is correlation. The sun and temperate climate is the link between eating bananas and having darker skin, and whose to say there isn't a similar factor that links heart disease with gum disease?
This is not nitpicking when claims are made that gum disease causes heart disease as a way to justify water fluoridation. For all we know heart disease causes gum disease. That claim has just as much validity...which is about zero. It may, but we don't know, and until we know we can't say one way or another.
Andrew you are 100thousand percent wrong in your statement. Arguing semantics does not help your case. This comes from three generations of DDS in my family, plus my MS microbiology thesis on periodontitis caused by oral biofilm. Not only can inflammation and immune response wreak havock on your ticker, those tiny microbes can begin to circulate and cause sepsis. If you don't care to look at real facts and research, please do not comment.
The problem with many people on here is they think a correlation is the same as a causitive effect. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!
Consider this. More ice cream is consumed during warmer months. More shark attacks occur in warmer months. There is a correlation between ice cream consumption and shark attacks. Does that mean consuming ice cream causes shark attacks? Of course not.
AND, there is no data showing that water fluoridation has any affect on gum disease!
Someone named "MmmMmmBeer" has a MS in a science-related field and says things like "you're a thousand percent wrong"? I find that interesting.
So if you're privy to research, and you hold that research up as "real facts", and you say those who have not seen that research and do not know those facts should simply not bother commenting, then why no citations?
If there is published, peer-reviewed research proving a causal relationship between periodontal disease and heart disease, I would love to see it. I think we all would love to see it.
Correction: you made the even more hyperbolic claim that I am "100 thousand percent wrong". My bad. You're half-way to me being "a hundred bazillion percent wrong"...hyperbolically speaking, of course.
...and I anxiously await your source citations.
Good, straight-forward article. I agree completely, and also think the same kind of evidence applies to the HPV vaccine, except that the damage is going to be much, much greater. Head and Neck cancer is the fastest growing cancer in this country now, and these statistics are a fact. If you are told you have it, you are in for a rough ride. They can cure it in a large percentage of cases, but it still isn't something you want to go through. I had it, wasn't HPV but sun damage that led to skin cancer, then metastic cancer of the lymph nodes in the neck. Believe me when I say you do not want to get this, and even if there was a risk (which they say there isn't) I would take the vaccine in a heartbeat, and if I can get it now I will take it. A large percentage of these new cases are from HPV, they aren't sure why this big increase has happened, but I believe all cancers are due to multiple factors - our environment and our diet, and to some extent heredity. I think that one of the major problems of our society today is the fact that we elect politicians because of looks, personality, and our own naivete instead of by what they know or the experience they have. A scientist or engineer usually has zero chance of being elected to public office, and these are the very people who would push for what is needed to keep us healthy. My children are grown but I've told them to get it if they can, and if I had underage children they would be getting it as fast as possible. My father had polio, and that is another disease that was just terrible, and was virtually wiped out by the Salk and Sabin vaccines.
Most new cases of polio in the world are CAUSED by the vaccine. Good hygeine and diet changes in the '50s resulted in the dramatic drop in polio case BEFORE the vaccines came into being.
From the Washington post:
A polio outbreak in Nigeria was caused by the vaccine designed to stop it, international health officials say, leaving at least 69 children paralyzed. Subsequent vaccine-caused polio outbreaks have occurred in the Philippines, Madagascar, China and Indonesia.
And, most interesting, From the Hidustan times:
Polio is back in Punjab, with a five-month-old girl from a Barnala village the latest victim of the deadly virus. But this time, the disease was caused by a vaccine-derived poliovirus (VDPV) instead of a wild virus, making it the sixth such case in the country this year. A month after she was born, Sukhmani Kaur's lower body began weakening, leading to paralysis and finally to her death on Thursday morning.
Science Daily:
The Journal of Infectious Diseases, and now available online, describes the first outbreak of poliomyelitis in China in more than a decade and the first in that country caused by vaccine-derived virus.
This marks the fifth outbreak of vaccine-derived poliomyelitis reported in the world since 2000, the year in which China was certified free of wild-type poliovirus
There is NO proof that fluoride in drinking water has prevented even one cavity. As a matter of fact fluoridated water has been shown to cause dental and bone fluorosis which causes teeth and bones to become brittle due to calcium loss.
Look in your tubes of toothpaste. What does it say about accidental injestion? It is such a poisonous substance that you are requested to cal your local poison control center if your child swallows a small, pea size amount! Where is the same warnings for drinking one glass of fluoridated water in Chicago? They both contain the same amount of fluoride!
From the St Petersberg Times:
The American Dental Association, which has for many years been one of fluoride's biggest advocates, alerted its members late last year that parents of infants younger than a year old "should consider using water that has no or low levels of fluoride" when mixing baby formula.
However, while public health agencies in some states, such as Vermont and New Hampshire, immediately issued warnings in the media based on the ADA alert, other states took months to relay the message.
Florida's Department of Health put the message on its website four months after it was issued along with a note that read: "Mixing formula with fluoridated water poses no known health risks."
The ADA was concerned about fluorosis, a condition caused by too much fluoride that damages the enamel of teeth. Some scientists believe that even mild to moderate cases of fluorosis can lead to more significant problems. Studies have associated fluorosis with lower IQ, endocrine system problems, and skeletal damage.
Consider this:
Prior to 1945, when communal water fluoridation in the U.S. took effect, fluoride was actually a known toxin. For example, a 1936 issue of the Journal of the American Dental Association stated that fluoride at the 1 ppm (part per million) concentration is as toxic as arsenic and lead. Years later, the Journal of the American Medical Association stated in their September 18, 1943 issue that fluorides are general protoplasmic poisons that change the permeability of the cell membrane by certain enzymes.1 Additionally, an editorial published in the Journal of the American Dental Association on October 1, 1944 stated, "Drinking water containing as little as 1.2 ppm fluoride will cause developmental disturbances. We cannot run the risk of producing such serious systemic disturbances. The potentialities for harm outweigh those for good.
Water fluoridation is ineffective. There is practically no difference in tooth decay between fluoridated and non-fluoridated countries, and no difference between states that have a high or low percentage of their water fluoridated.
You may want to read this before you go off blindly believing everything you read in the main stream media!
""
To be fair, the toothpaste label is not for calling poison control if a child swallows a "pea-sizes amount" but in the event of swallowing a larger quantity. The pea-sized amount is the recommended amount of toothpaste that children use to minimize swallowing, to establish good brushing practices.
Here is the mandatory warning:
"WARNINGS: Keep out of reach of children under 6 years of age. If you accidentally swallow more than used for brushing, seek PROFESSIONAL HELP or contact a POISON CONTROL center immediately."
The recommended amount for brushing is a small pea size. How many parents control the amount of toothpaste their child uses to that extent? Using the amount shown on the TV commercials is a week or more worth!
The point is, this stuff is dangerous and we should not be compelled to take a drug without our consent!
I'm on your side Paul, but the warning is due to the sorbitol, not the fluoride. You ingest more F from drinking water than toothpaste.
I remain unaware of a single study that shows that ingested fluoride is either an effective preventer of tooth decay or is even safe, period. The only studies that show that fluoride prevents tooth decay are for topical application, not internal.
There's an entire generation of proof that fluoride works to make teeth healthy. At such low levels, there is no harm. Study after study shows it works (just go to the ADA website or check google scholar).
Just because we live in a time where fluoride in water is readily available, we forget what teeth were like before fluoridation.
While the rich will always have access to good dentists, fluoride pills, and teeth varnishes, the poor, who relied on fluoridated water, will suffer.
Point to ONE proper study , NOT sponsored by any group with a vested interest, that shows INJESTION of fluoride prevents tooth decay. Then i will point out dozens of studies that show that it it a poison.
Fiancetto: I would disagree with the sorbitol factor as this is from the ADA web site:
"The ADA warning labels were required to help reduce the risk of mild fluorosis, which is a cosmetic defect noticeable as very light spots on permanent teeth and develops only while the teeth are still forming."
Although they call it a cosmetic defect, it is an indication that the bone and tooth development system is not working correctly. Dentla Fluorosis is an indication of incomplete crystallization of the calcium. This also occurs in the bones of fluorosis sufferers.
Bart:
What do you consider low levels? The ADA recommended 1ppm? Then how about this:
Prior to 1945, when communal water fluoridation in the U.S. took effect, fluoride was actually a known toxin. For example, a 1936 issue of the Journal of the American Dental Association stated that fluoride at the 1 ppm (part per million) concentration is as toxic as arsenic and lead. Years later, the Journal of the American Medical Association stated in their September 18, 1943 issue that fluorides are general protoplasmic poisons that change the permeability of the cell membrane by certain enzymes.1 Additionally, an editorial published in the Journal of the American Dental Association on October 1, 1944 stated, "Drinking water containing as little as 1.2 ppm fluoride will cause developmental disturbances. We cannot run the risk of producing such serious systemic disturbances. The potentialities for harm outweigh those for good
Mr. Caplan, Ph.D., should apply the process he presumably used to achieve his doctorate: scientific inquiry. By mentioning tooth discoloration he is letting us know that he has read about the side effects of fluoride in drinking water, yet he fails to mention any other physical problems which may occur, especially in those individuals who drink, and cook with, a fair amount of water.
Cosmetic issues are the least of the potential problems, but he is ignoring this to make an emotional argument instead of an informed one. Fluoride is available in almost every single toothpaste on the market, and there is no need for additional supplementation. The dire warnings on toothpaste, rinses, etc. not to swallow are there for a reason - fluoride internally is a toxin.
Fluoride internally is a toxin, only in high levels. Water has very, very low levels. Sure, toothpastes warn not to swallow, but all of us has from time to time--we aren't all dying.
People actually take fluoride pills to strengthen teeth, but they aren't dying.
It's the concentration that makes the difference.
@ Bart - Fluoride is toxic at a not too high level. It's toxic at 3-5 ppm. It can cause discomfort at .2- .3 ppm. The setpoint they use for water is .7 ppm.
On another point, controlling a system to .7ppm can be problematic. It doesn't take much of an excursion to dose more than .7ppm. Think about it, if you have a million gallons of water you can legally add less than 3/4 of a gallon of fluoride.
There have been two times when I have refused to program the control logic for adding fluoride into drinking water because the system as it existed made it too easy to add dangerous levels of fluoride to the water. As a side note there have been several times where I refused to program the control logic to add chlorine to drinking water for the same reason.
I see no reason to add fluorine anymore. It just makes more sense to get it in toothpaste. It makes more sense to me to give away fluoride toothpaste to kids then fluoridate water.
Bart: What do you consider high levels? 1ppm as recommended now by the ada used to be calld toxic by the same ADA.
Prior to 1945, when communal water fluoridation in the U.S. took effect, fluoride was actually a known toxin. For example, a 1936 issue of the Journal of the American Dental Association stated that fluoride at the 1 ppm (part per million) concentration is as toxic as arsenic and lead. Years later, the Journal of the American Medical Association stated in their September 18, 1943 issue that fluorides are general protoplasmic poisons that change the permeability of the cell membrane by certain enzymes.1 Additionally, an editorial published in the Journal of the American Dental Association on October 1, 1944 stated, "Drinking water containing as little as 1.2 ppm fluoride will cause developmental disturbances. We cannot run the risk of producing such serious systemic disturbances. The potentialities for harm outweigh those for good
Paul and Kurt:
I think you need to do some research on the issue.
Thank you for offsetting what they said. Very insightful that you're down playing people who bring up points beyond "you're wrong"... at least insightful into what you think and believe.
And I'm not saying that they're right but if you're going to tell someone that they're wrong at least be able to back it up with some facts.
Jerome, Maybe YOU need to do some actual research rather than parrotting what you hear on the MSM. The evidence is overwhelming that fluoride in drinking water does nothing to fight tooth decay, but is a powerful poison that is being pushed on the population without their consent.
The most vulnerable suffer when fluoride is added to drinking water -- because they typically lack the knowledge or the money to do anything about it. Fluoride causes cancer, neurologic injury, and more, and does nothing good.
The mainstream media are the right-arm of the super-rich, global elite, who look upon the rest of us humans as pawns. They own the media and the government. There is nothing that anyone can do to stop them, but we can at least avoid swallowing their poisons when possible.
Although the cause of Alzheimer's remains unknown, two substances have been found in the brain tissue of those who have died from it: aluminum and fluoride.
Do you make this stuff up? Fluoride has NOT been seen in the brain tissue of those with Alzheimers.
Bart: Oh, REALLY?
Valdez-Jimenez, et al. describe studies that show fluoride induces changes in the brain's physical structure and biochemistry which affects the neurological and mental development of individuals including cognitive processes, such as learning and memory.
"Fluoride is capable of crossing the blood-brain barrier, which may cause biochemical and functional changes in the nervous system during pregnancy, since the fluoride accumulates in brain tissue before birth," they write.*
Animal studies show fluoride's toxic brain effects include classic brain abnormalities found in patients with Alzheimer's disease, Valdez-Jimenez's team reports.
A different research team (Tang et al.) reported in 2008 that "A qualitative review of the studies found a consistent and strong association between the exposure to fluoride and low IQ." (Biological Trace Element Research) (2)
In 2006, the U.S. National Research Council's (NRC) expert fluoride panel reviewed fluoride toxicology and concluded, "It's apparent that fluorides have the ability to interfere with the functions of the brain." And, "Fluorides also increase the production of free radicals in the brain through several different biological pathways. These changes have a bearing on the possibility that fluorides act to increase the risk of developing Alzheimer's disease." (3)
On April 12, 2010, Time magazine listed fluoride as one of the "Top Ten Common Household Toxins" and described fluoride as both "neurotoxic and potentially tumorigenic if swallowed." (4)
Phyllis Mullenix, Ph.D., was the first U.S. scientist to find evidence that fluoride damages the brain. She published her animal study in a respected peer-reviewed scientific journal in 1995 (5) and then was fired for doing so.(6)
Vyvyan Howard, M.D., Ph.D., a prominent fetal toxicologist and past-President of the International Society of Doctors for the Environment, said that current brain/fluoride research convinces him that we should stop water fluoridation.
Researchers recently expressed their surprise that low doses of sodium fluoride, equivalent to the amount found in 1 ppm fluoridated water, were found to cause brain damage similar to that found in Alzheimer's and other forms of dementia, and that low doses of aluminum fluoride (0.5 ppm) resulted in double the amount of aluminum found in the brain compared to 100 times the dosage of aluminum (50 ppm) without the fluoride. (See 29-1: Brain Research, 784, 1998, 284-298).
" ... water with 1 part per million (ppm) of fluoride frees nearly 200 ppm of aluminum when boiled 10 minutes in aluminum cooking pots. That is 1,000 times the aluminum leached by nonfluoridated water." (See 29-2: Science News, 1/31/87).
"With the discovery that abnormally high levels of aluminum are present in senile plaques in Alzheimer's dementia, the cumulative effects of aluminum poisoning and the question of how this metal enters the body become problems that need immediate attention." (See 29-2: "Aluminum Leaching From Cooking from Utensils," in Nature, Jan. 1987).
I got polio from the vaccine..Back in 1961...Thanks to that free shot that all children had to get...It has left me with a life long disabilty...Nobody gaves a damn about me!
Though I am no doctor and do not subscribe to the Tea Party or its agenda, I have heard (and read in sites such as this one http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/thyroid/) that there's a connection between too much fluoride and the increase in thyroid disease. One of my relatives was actually told by her doctor that fluoride treatments plus fluoride in water, toothpaste and mouth washes probably contributed to her needing to have her thyroid removed.
If fluoride is found in toothpaste, dental treatments, mouth washes and drinking water, it does seem like overkill, doesn't it?
Correct, there is no way to control dosage. Insulin, for instance, might be life saving, but if you inject it and also drink it in your juice, eat it in your soup, eat it in the juicy tomato you grew at home and irrigated with insulin-treated water and drink it in your own water, you'd end up killing yourself.
Since we all get exposed to so much fluoride, shouldn't we all have thyroid disease, according to what you've read?
We don't because low levels of fluoridation make teeth healthy but don't affect the rest of the body.
You have no evidence to back up your claims except from the ADA, who, incidentally, before fluoridation began, called it a bad poison that should not be used.
Why do you think that with all the medical advances in the last few decades, why is the incidence of Alzheimars and other neurdegenerative desiease climbing at an alarming rate? Could it be that since it takes 20-40 years for the effects of fluoride poisoning to begin to show.....Oh, never mind. You know all of that already.
Removing all citizens' choice on flouride VIA daily uncontrollable and unavoidable dosages...that's unAmerican! --
Freedom to select what is in our diet...& not being forcably overmedicated via way, way too much in all our showering water, coffee pot water, cooking water, pets drinking water, plants being watered with this toxic harsh chemical additive/waste....
Plus, who's funding this gross scam of our taxpayers' money? China aluminum manufacturing wastse produces most of the "fluoride" crap purchased by these "Water Disctrics" to dump into Municipal water wells. China did a study and noted 8-10 I.Q. points lowered because of children drinking this crap...they forbid it being dumped into their water...they desire to rule over the world someday, and will not be able to achive this goal with mildly stunted/retarded citzens.
So, why do we still continue this barbaric practice?
Toothbrushing and waterflossing will allieviate the poor dental hiegine that leads to rotten teeth.
If we really cared about the fluoride for the poor...
then lets hand out some kool-aide-fluoride mixed packettes -
to all low-income folks to manually add for free at home.
Leave me outta it. I actually brush and floss my teeth resonably well.
My bath water does not need any skin absorbing fluoride either! DOSAGE CONTROL Folks!!
PS...In the title: when fluoride is "- TAKEN FROM WATER" Note: instead not -"Removed from the municipal water."- Sheesh! -even little old me...i can spot the yellow journalism slanted style of scare mongering via this bunko-shyt attempt to persuade us dullardz into fearing some much needed lovely chemical lifesaver will be deprived from us "poorfolks".
Aj, you are another tea moron !!
You have no idea how more ill due to bad dental condition people were before fluoride.
Why don't all you tea nitwits go find some fascist country to go live in where you can take yourselves back 100 years before modern science and education.
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UnitedStates1776- 100 years ago, education in America was far superior to what it is now, by a number of objective standards. Literacy, for one, has steadily declined over the last 100 years in all racial groups. I have no idea why you think "modern education" is anything of which to be proud.
The rich will have access to good dentists, fluoride pills, and varnishes. They will education about toothbrushing. The poor, which relied on fluoridated water, will suffer.
Yes, the Tea Party is just s spokesgroup for the rich.
UnitedStates1776:
If fluoridation is so good at preventing tooth decay, why does Kentucky, with 100% of their water fluoridated, have the highest percentage of people with bad teeth in the USA?
Why does Utah have the lowest rate of tooth loss and the lowest rate of fluoridation?
Why does the World Health Organization report that there is virtually no difference in dental health between fluoridated and non-fluoridated countries?
The American Dental Association considered fluoride a poison just prior to advocating universal fluoridation of water supplies.
I am grateful that my mom lived in an area where the water was naturally fluoridated and calcium-rich in the months and weeks before I was born.
I didn't get a cavity until I was 12 years old, and a half-century later, have had only five fillings, and this was with years between dental visits. The dentists have been impressed with my rock-hard teeth.
My grandparents' drinking glasses and cooking pots were coated with mineral deposits, a small price to pay compared to the endless visits and bad teeth of others I've known. My younger siblings did not get the same in utero dosages, and their dental bills show it.
Ahh not trying to be mean but this is nothing to crow about. I am 44 and have NEVER had a cavity. I have lived in areas that did and did not add fluoride to the water. IMO all you have to do is brush and floss your teeth. I make my kids do it twice a day.
The majority of my childhood before the age of 10 was spent in Africa, where the water is not fluoridated. Neither the poor people or the richer folk who ate processed grains and sugar got much tooth decay. Topical application of fluoride is the only documented way to reduce tooth decay.
Here are some useful web-links to peruse. I offer these simply hoping to grant you some more choice in this matter, (not lack of choice), via more information....
/
A blog with the difeerences between fluoride we use in toothpaste, and fuorosilicates...the crap from “industrial waste..+.and muni water”!
Fluoride action network...a site for further explaining of the dangers of mindlessly adding this fluoro-toxin to city water.
The hazard to our Pineal Gland inour brains being occluded by a toxic build-up of unnatural fluoride.
A little article by Paul Cornett, PhD. (a “Smart Feller”) who’s actually done a bit of well rounded upto date research on the whole debate on the matter of our Municipal Water.
He’s worth reading a bit here.
-enjoy!
Aj
Now perhaps we can get that pesky chlorine out of our water, too. Bring back Cholera and Polio!
actually, you are correct even though you were being sarcastic. The are many better alternative to free-chlorine as disinfectants. Ozone, chloro-amine only to mane a couple.
Get an education before spouting off in an area where you are obviously not well read.
Chloramines are carcingenic and will kill marine life. If you own an aquarium and have water using chloramines as disinfectants, you will see this first hand if you don't filter the water.
Here are some useful web-links to peruse. I offer these simply hoping to grant you some more choice in this matter, (not lack of choice), via more information....
A blog with the difeerences between fluoride we use in toothpaste, and fuorosilicates...the crap from “industrial waste..+.and muni water”!
(fluoridedangers dot blogspot)
Fluoride action network...a site for further explaining of the dangers of mindlessly adding this fluoro-toxin to city water.
(fluoridealert dot org)
The hazard to our Pineal Gland inour brains being occluded by a toxic build-up of unnatural fluoride.
(Naturalnews dot com)
A little article by Paul Cornett, PhD. (a “Smart Feller”) who’s actually done a bit of well rounded upto date research on the whole debate on the matter of our Municipal Water.
He’s worth reading a bit here. google his name or search thru the (fluoridealrt dot org) website!
-enjoy!
Aj
Ps. Sorry about the first attempt to transfer the web addresses in my previous post. This one should post thru.
Fluoride does not need to be added to our drinking water. Its so called cavity prevention in our water is a myth. Fluoride only works when *applied* to the teeth but we should not be ingesting it. I don't want fluoride in my drinking water and that's why I use a filter.
Filters don't take out the fluoride (unless they are electrolyte filters). You may not have been around when fluoride wasn't in water. Teeth was awful.
Teeth are still awful even in areas that have 100% fluoridation, such as Kentucky. Proper brushing and flossing are shown to be far more effective than any fluoride application.
Also, a good reverse osmosis filter will remove about 98% of fluoride from water.
Dear Dr. Caplan, What might be your association with those who beneifit from government sanctioning the ready disposal of hydrofluorosilicic acid toxic waste into our drinking water, eh?
Fluoride is not added to water. It's already there, because it's been dumped into the supply by the steel industry. When the clean air & water acts first passed, polluters paid scientists to come up with a study allowing them to escape some of the new restrictions. These 'scientists' found fluoride hardened tooth enamel. So the very powerful industrial lobbies were basically allowed to keep dumping fluoride, which is toxic.
While fluoride hardens the enamel, it does not prevent the inside of the tooth from decaying, and people still get as many cavities as they would, anyway. I have been fluoride-free for over a decade & haven't had a cavity ever. Proper brushing & flossing, plus genetics is really all one can do.
or, just listen to an expert:
I posted a link, but it didn't show ... search "50 reasons to oppose fluoridation." author's name is Paul Connett, PhD.
Hey. There are two sides to every issue. Science is the backbone of what good medical advice is based on. And yes, dentists are physicians of the oral cavity. We base our recommendations on sound, evidence-based research. For those not familiar with this brand of science, it is where a subject matter to be studied is done so using the Scientific Method. In short, it is consists asking a question, forming a hypothesis, testing that hypothesis, analyzing the data, drawing conclusions, and reporting the findings. You do not go into a project with the goal of proving your hypothesis to be true. Nor do you use poor analytical methods to crunch the numbers of your findings. You find out what you find out regardless of the outcome.
Additionally, the research that you have done must be reliable and repeatable. If it is not, then your findings are suspect. One more small tidbit.....it must be evaluated and published in peer-reviewed, refereed publications that speak to the validity of the research.
To simplify this long comment, Fluoride's effectiveness, effects on hard & soft tissues, and safety have been studied and studied and studied on the public's dime. The vast majority of this research is paid for by the US Government, not big corporations. It works, it's safe, and saves the public much pain and suffering. To withhold it from the easiest and most compliant delivery method, the water system, is unthinkable. It is cruel. It is inhumane.
Oh, and the second kind of science is the kind that most of the posted comments rely on. Studies that don't follow the Scientific Method, aren't repeatable nor reliable, and are written up in abstracts or self-serving books that are not reviewed by anyone. In short, pseudo-science.
Lastly, if you don't want fluoride in your drinking water, regardless of your own cavity experience (that's called a study of one), you'd better filter out all of the foods and drinks that you ingest. Everything has fluoride in it. Some items more than others. Lucky for you though. You're getting what's called background fluoride. It is helping you to have less cavities than you would otherwise :)
As a far from amused physician, I would like to reply. "The vast majority of this research is paid for by the US Government, not big corporations": so you think that the government can be trusted more than big corporations? Why? Blind faith on your part. Power corrupts. It always has, and it always will. Look below the surface, past the smiling politicians and their swelling rhetoric.
Let's review anatomy and physiology: fluoridated water goes into the stomach, and is absorbed by the GI tract, not by the teeth. You are sending your drug to the wrong place. That is cruel and inhumane.
Agreed, foods and drinks contain fluoride, partly because your fluoridators are polluting the water supplies and subsequently the environment with the stuff. Cut it out. Fluoride causes cancer and neurologic injury and does no good.
How simplistic to say "government is evil and can't be trusted" like government is some monolith waiting to kill us all.
Government wants to make sure it's getting the most for its buck. It wouldn't pay for fluoridation of studies showed it didn't work. It works and doesn't cause harm. We have a generation of evidence.
Interesting to note is that the "dentist" here just created his account to reply. Makes you wonder if he's a real dentist or one of the endless trolls that make an account to make a handful of remarks to look authoritative. Who knows, our "dentist" may be off claiming he's a scientist of a different ilk now and claiming that he's done research on yadda... yadda... yadda...
EVERYTHING damn thing causes cancer these days, no one is safe, if your meant to get it you will, if your not you wont, but not all that causes cancer can be stopped considering they seem to be able to find it in everything!!
Amused dentist: Then how do you account for the areas in the Appalacians having the poorest dental health and the highest fluoridation "compliance"?
Bart, the Government doesn't pay for fluoridation, YOU DO! And you have a generation where Alzheimers and other neurodegenerative diseases are skyrocketing.
Bart Conner- you write, "How simplistic to say 'government is evil and can't be trusted' like government is some monolith waiting to kill us all. Government wants to make sure it's getting the most for its buck." You put words in my mouth. Much of the government is made up of ordinary Americans like you or me. The problem is with the super-rich who have controlled America and much of the world for generations. They control our government and have reduced our democracy to a sham. Speaking of simplistic, that's how I would describe your blind faith that the Rockefellers/Carnegies/Rothschilds/JP Morgans of the world have our best interests at heart. Read "Tragedy and Hope" by Carroll Quigley, a man cited favorably by Bill Clinton in his 1992 speech accepting the Democratic presidential nomination. Suddenly the world will start to make sense.
This removal of fluoride is the most braindead thing I've seen in a long time.
The tea people are an outright danger to our children and families.
Yeah, let's go back to the 1950's when every kid had a whole mouth full of cavities.
Stupid. Just Stupid. Ban the ignorant tea party !!
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Or go to Kentucky where there is universal fluoridation and EVERYONE has a mouth full of cavities 50 years after fluoridation began. Fluoride in drinking water and dental health show NO causitive link. Proper brushing and flossing does.
Dear doc...
if you really care, then do go hand out free fluoride powder packettes to all the poor families...
so they can add it to their kid's Kool-aide and maybe mix it in the morning coffee, then maybe add 1/2 a packette into the daily bath water. Don't forget to add some into the philodendron's watering can! -and baby's bottle too!! and Fido the dog's water-dish as well!
SMART Dentist/Doctor:
-Dosage is not an issue now is it?
and:
About the kidney compromosed? So what...it's all for the common good! They're gonna die sooner rather than later any ways? right, Doc?
Never mind the recent warnings to the baby milk mixes never to use fluoride water...it hurts the infants little kidneys and decreases intelligence by several IQ point...but, hey...harder teeth!
Never mind the increase in skeletal fractures for the elderly...They have gotten the osteoporosis, from all those years of anavoidable fluoride in the water ,but they have hard (yet brittle ) teeth, too.
Dear doc...-Bite Me (-with yer harder teeth!) - hope you reap the personal benefit of increased osteoporosis too- from drinking all that unfiltered fluoride water.
What you say is unconscionable.
Aj, you're an idiot.
Fluoride has been one of the biggest improvements in dental and overall family health for 50 years.
If you have an infant buy bottled water for them. Don't penalize the rest of the family who benefit from fluoride greatly.
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UnitedStates1776:
You have it backward. Communities should deliver clean water withour drugs to treat everyone. Fluoride would still be legal. Anyone wishing it could buy bottled water with fluoride or take fluoride tablets. That would then provide freedom of choice.
Floride is industrial waste and a known toxin even in very small quantities.
"UnitedStates1776
Aj, you're an idiot.
Fluoride has been one of the biggest improvements in dental and overall family health for 50 years."
PROVE that statement. Show me any study you can find that supports that claim and also accounts for the lack of causitive link between dental health and fluoridation.
Dear Aj,
Unfortunately, the only thing that I will reap will be the income from your children's and your increased cavity rates. Oh, and yes, we are adding fluoride as a mindless, self-serving project since we've been brainwashed by big industries to get rid of their waste. How novel. Save me the time and your money. I don't want it, contrary to the popular belief of anti-fluoridationists.
I welcome the day that we have a vaccine that will work against dental disease. But, as I am certain as the sun will come up tomorrow, you will be against vaccines being forced on our population. For vaccines cause more problems than they prevent, right? Tell that to a child that has whooping cough because their parent was afraid to give them vaccinations for fear that they would develop Autism. Now, I don't say that with malice. Autism is not humorous in the least. But what is humorous is the physician that cooked the books to show that patients developed it in his study of I believe 12 people. I think he is now serving time in a very limited sized apartment with a urinal and no kitchen. Hopefully his water source is fluoridated so he won't cost the taxpayers undue burden by having to have more of his remaining teeth treated.
If you feel so magnanimous as to want to supply volunteers, such as myself, with the funds to go to the inner cities to treat the population in most need of preventive dental care, then give to your local dental association with the stipulation that these dollars be used in this way.
Feel free to quote good scientific research when you espouse claims of physical ailments that fluoride causes. Interestingly, it doesn't exist. But lucky for you, a colorful vocabulary does. Criticize those caring for the health of our population. We are an easy target. But, that's ok. It's what we signed up for. We love it and wouldn't change a thing about it. May God Bless you and yours.
amused dentist- I thought these quotes from EPA scientists might amuse you further: "Fluoridation is the greatest case of scientific fraud of this century". (Robert Carton, PhD.) "Regarding fluoridation, the EPA should act immediately to protect the public. Not just on the cancer data, but on the evidence of bone fractures, arthritis, mutagenicity and other effects". (William Marcus, PhD, senior EPA toxicologist.)
What a doofus! The link between autism and vaccines was NEVER mentioned in that study. The link that was shown was the link between a certain bowel diseas and autism. And, the "journalist" that supposedly disproved the link was later shown to be a fraud and liar.
The level of fluoridation cannot even be shown to have a correlated relationship to dental health, let alone a causitive one.
Thank You US1776 I failed to address the infant formula concern. It seems that the ADA and CDC did a nice job of that if those reading would take the time to really review that literature.
Again. Dosages? Never an issue? Kidney health...ostoporosis as bones suck up the same tooth mottling agent fluoride, -Never an issue?
Informed public coice to opt in/opt out...never an issue? My Berkey expensive water filter filters don't work on the tub bath water nor shower water...never an issue nor a choice here?
me thinks you really is not a dentis nor doctor...rather me suspects you is the very self same author of this here little article!!! ha! busted... ; - )
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